Divers and Diver Power.

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Divers and Diver Power.

Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Sat Apr 14, 2007 7:42 pm

Hello all!

I'm planning to write an article for the FSS section about Divers and Diver Force, but information within the manga itself is fairly scare, so I could use a bit of help here.

From what I can gather from the manga and from the very few conversations I remember from Wax Trax (and its been years now, so my memory may be fuzzy) Divers were created before Headdliners were and eventually, the Divers became the ruling class of the galaxy. In fact, Headdliners were created by Alchemy Divers, am I correct?

Any more information to add?
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Post by Rubel Colus » Sat Apr 14, 2007 11:12 pm

1. Diver Power - offensive/destructive powers most common in Joker. People with this ability are called 魔道士 or divers. E.g. Mel Zoom, Tin. Becoz they are so common, usually the description 'diver' may mean people of this category, but can also mean all or any of the others as a general term.

2. Para Simul - powers related to time and space (predictive powers, clairvoyance?). 2nd most common in Joker. E.g Litora, Sachier. The ultimate technique is the ability to possess another person (almost used by Mikoto, and is used by Vos on Di Barrow)

3. High-Brain - power to control other people, esp chivalries from AD era. E.g Yo Tai-in used on Swans. lost or extremely rare ability in JC era.

4. Alchemy - transmutation powers. Vos created a monster using this ability and used it to attack Rogner during Black Three chapter. Alchemy is the reason why fatima and MH meights have their special abilities. lost or extremely rare ability in JC era. Barupa in the future era claims he has this ability.

Diver Force - people with four types of diver abilities. E.g. Empress of Flame, Magdall, Vos

The Super Empire Chivalries (knights) were first created by Empress of Flame (thru her alchemy abilities).

The ruling class during the AD century were the Pure Blood Divers, and probably have all four abilies, so they were Diver Force. They controlled the Chivalries with HighBrain powers. HighBrain and Alchemy are extremely rare in JC era.

Alias - ability to create a double, but the diver himself will be in deep state of meditation and cannot move. Used to be classified as the highest level of high-brain powers, but more recently classified under alchemy. Empress of Flame (Nein) and Beauty had displayed this ability (Beauty had her abilities enhanced by Vos, so we dunno if she had it before or after?).

Amaterasu pretends to have this ability but the fact that:

a. his 'aliases' (Rince and Agari) and he himself look different
b. he and his aliases can move independently (see this in vol12jp)
c. they have independent thought and different 'personalities'

proves that his powers are different from a normal diver (stated in KF). He didnt have to 'sleep' when he sent Rince back to Float Temple during the Black Three invasion. Since these doubles are technically different from a normal alias, KF describes Rince and Agari as 'Slaves' of Amaterasu.

Ladios Sopp and Lady Sopp are not 'aliases' of Amaterasu, they are achieved by Amaterasu's shape-shifting. So u can see Amat chatting with Agari and/or Rince, but u wont see Amat with Sopp/Lady Sopp at the same time.
Last edited by Rubel Colus on Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Tachyon » Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:32 am

Thanks for the great information, Rubel!
If you don't like the news then go make some of your own.

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Post by Falk » Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:46 am

Yup', really interesting.
Rubel Colus wrote:c. they have independent thought and different personalities
I never "got" that particularity. I mean, it would take countless philosophical essays to define what defines an individual being (memory, personnality, body...), but I just fail to see the point of this in the story.
Is he so powerful there wasn't enough "space" in one being ?
Does an alias never gets angry of not being "summoned" a little bit more or whatever ?
I don't get how different characters can also be the same. It's just like counting to infinity twice, that's impossible (yeah, that's a Chuck Norris joke^^)
different =/= same, it just doesn't match... blah xD
Rubel Colus wrote:Ladios Sopp and Lady Sopp are not 'aliases' of Amaterasu, they are achieved by Amaterasu's shape-shifting. So u can see Amat chatting with Agari and/or Rince, but u wont see Amat with Sopp/Lady Sopp at the same time.
Ha m'kay, interesting fact (doesn't help me much for the previous problem though :wink: )
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Post by Ladycus sopp » Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:28 am

Ladios/Lady Sopp/Amaterasu is a woman or a woman in a body of man, I always wondered it…

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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:17 am

Falk wrote:
I never "got" that particularity. I mean, it would take countless philosophical essays to define what defines an individual being (memory, personnality, body...), but I just fail to see the point of this in the story.
Is he so powerful there wasn't enough "space" in one being ?
Does an alias never gets angry of not being "summoned" a little bit more or whatever ?
I don't get how different characters can also be the same. It's just like counting to infinity twice, that's impossible (yeah, that's a Chuck Norris joke^^)
different =/= same, it just doesn't match... blah xD
Here's the deal with Amaterasu:

He has no emotions or "personality" on his own. He cannot empathize with humans in his real persona, so he created various other personas of different personality types so that he could interact with humans on various levels. In order to get a complete experience, he has to create both male and female personalities to do this.

There is a scene at the end of (Japanese) book X where he's telling Lachesis about his various personalities and their feelings on Ballanche's death. Lady Sop wouldn't stop crying. Ladios Sop took years to come to terms with it. Mel Rince was sad etc. It is through these various personalities that Amaterasu is coming to understand homo-sapiens.

Its like Amatersu has multiple personality disorder, but he's able to split them up between his aliases and his alternate forms. People generally create new personalities when they've experienced a trauma so great, they wish to forget or don't want to deal with it, so the mind "partitions" itself as a self-defense mechanism. Amaterasu has done this, but not because of trauma, but in order to be able to deal with homo-sapiens on their own level. (something he can't really do as himself)
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Post by Rubel Colus » Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:20 am

Falk wrote:Yup', really interesting.
Rubel Colus wrote:c. they have independent thought and different personalities
I never "got" that particularity. I mean, it would take countless philosophical essays to define what defines an individual being (memory, personnality, body...), but I just fail to see the point of this in the story.
Is he so powerful there wasn't enough "space" in one being ?
Does an alias never gets angry of not being "summoned" a little bit more or whatever ?
I don't get how different characters can also be the same.
hmm to be exact, Amaterasu is devoid of any emotions or personalities (like what NSG said). so what i said above - 'personalities' is actually somewhat like an actor acting out his/her different roles in a movie. problem is - Amat don't truely understand the emotions - he just acts them out, like a computer program.

the whole idea is for Amat to react to situations with appropriate responses so that he dont appear so emotionless in real life situations, which is hardly acceptable for humans. Perhaps it is something similar to learning by example/sampling, Amat finally did truely feel sad when Ballanche died. so it did work out well in the end.. :shock:

also, being in more than one 'body', and more than one 'personality' may be mind-boggling for us normal humans, but Amat is a god. Another interesting point is, while Rince and Agari are actually Amat himself, both seem to realise they are 'subordinates' of Amat and will always do his bidding. :|
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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:48 pm

Ladycus sopp wrote:Ladios/Lady Sopp/Amaterasu is a woman or a woman in a body of man, I always wondered it…
Amaterasu is either a Hermaphrodite (having both male and female sex organs) or he is sexless. His Ladios Sop form is male. His Lady Sop form is female (its not Sop in drag, sorry!). I think Amaterasu may have decided to make "Emperor Amaterasu" a male during his adolescence, since he married Litora at a young age.
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Post by Euhsung » Sun May 20, 2007 4:43 pm

Amaterasu was born with the ability to shift gender at will; he doesn't possess both organs at once. It's just that he had no control over it as a baby, being a tabula rasa and all...

It's hinted in his flashback that he was born male by coincidence, and that he unconsciously shifted genders before settling into his male persona, hence Mikoto's remark about 'Several times a year, 'his majesty' actually becomes 'her majesty'!' It's not that he has no gender, he just didn't define his gender.

He eventually settles on a male persona because his birth was recorded as 'Amaterasu Dis Eydas IV'; any changes would cause controversy. As it is, he seems to have embraced his identity as a male, although it would be interesting if he got into what is better known as a 'Ranma' situation.

Note: Fatima and MH meights are the remnants of Alchemy in the Joker era.

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