Question about Vol. 26

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Talos402000

Question about Vol. 26

Post by Talos402000 » Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:00 am

I have question about Vol. 26. Who is the character on page 71? Diode is obviously his\her fatima. What is Phantasmagoria? What is the name of the Mortar Head in page72? Why do the Mirages not look happy to see them?

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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:27 am

You are obviously talking about St. Greens/Green Neipier.

He is a member of the Amaterasu royal family. For some reason (I don't know why) he has been given "ultimate authority" over the Amaterasu family. However he has no political power (he can't give orders to government officials etc) but since the Mirage Knights are the personal bodyguards of the Emperor and the Amaterasu family, he can command them. He's been in cold-sleep (suspended animation or whatever) for a couple of hundred years. He is a Headdliner of the rank of "Heaven Position" (Super Master in the English version).

The MH is the AUGE. The MH Auge that Atropos used during the Emperor Rescue mission is a newer MH based on the design of the original Auge. This AUGE was actually once a Machine Messiah, created during the AD era (and yes, its been in the Amaterasu family that long) but has been upgraded to include a Fatima cockpit (designed specifically for Diode) so now it can be considered a MH. I'm assuming it is at least as powerful as a MM: Yen Xing.

Neipier thinks it is the most beautiful MH in the galaxy and takes offense if people start calling other MH's by that tittle, like then Engage SR-1......

As for Phantasmagoria, I have no idea. There may be some information about it in Knight Flags. Anyone have any info??? All I know is that it resides "Outside Joker" Maybe in another galaxy? Or in the void between galaxies...
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Post by Rubel Colus » Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:34 am

I think the Mirage Knights were in shame, coz of the recent Black Three incident which crippled AKD, thus the look on their face.

St Greens actually has the right to decide on the throne succession! In addition, he supervises Amaterasu, but becoz Amaterasu juz wouldn't die :roll: (super long life), Neipier has to travel to Phantasmagoria - supposedly a place where "time stops" in order to be able to continue the supervision. I think this place is in the center of the Crown Galaxy (The Joker Cluster is within this Crown Galaxy). It seems he had also been "sleeping" (suspended animation).

To be exact, he is a "Knight Master" - he has the Wing Emblem. A knight master is a title given to skilled swordsman by the Sword Saint himself, it is some sort of an acknowledgement of the person's exceptional skills. This is different from the Heaven Position where it can be given by the Empress of Bakin Rakan (and SwordSaint as well). Seems like St Greens got his Knight Master title from Ned Swans way back in the early JC2000s.

I'm not sure what's the exact terms used in the English volumes, so can someone please list them out?

Sword Saint, Strong Heaven Position, Small Heaven Position, Heaven Position.
Knight Master (wing emblem).
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Post by Canadian FSS Fan » Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:39 pm

I'm not totally sure but the most often used terms around here seem to be Sword saint, Lesser/Greater Heaven Position, and I'm not sure about the rest.

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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:10 pm

Rubel Colus wrote:I think the Mirage Knights were in shame, coz of the recent Black Three incident which crippled AKD, thus the look on their face.
Yeah, Neipier was "chastising" them for that debacle.
St Greens actually has the right to decide on the throne succession!
:shock:

Wow, thats pretty heavy. I was totally unaware of that. So that's what they mean when they say "ultimate authority".
In addition, he supervises Amaterasu, but becoz Amaterasu juz wouldn't die :roll: (super long life), Neipier has to travel to Phantasmagoria - supposedly a place where "time stops" in order to be able to continue the supervision. I think this place is in the center of the Crown Galaxy (The Joker Cluster is within this Crown Galaxy). It seems he had also been "sleeping" (suspended animation).
Or is the Crown Galaxy within the Joker Cluster? Remember during the Taika segment, Nagano explained about Galactic Clusters and how a cluster of galaxies can be called a "System". Perhaps Joker is a cluster of Galaxies, of which the Crown Galaxy is a part of (center?)? Just a theory, but not one I have much faith in. I really think the Joker Cluster is a widely spread cluster of stars within a larger galaxy...the Crown Galaxy is as good a name as any!
To be exact, he is a "Knight Master" - he has the Wing Emblem. A knight master is a title given to skilled swordsman by the Sword Saint himself, it is some sort of an acknowledgement of the person's exceptional skills. This is different from the Heaven Position where it can be given by the Empress of Bakin Rakan (and SwordSaint as well). Seems like St Greens got his Knight Master title from Ned Swans way back in the early JC2000s.
Thanks for the clarification. I keep forgetting that Knight Master and Heaven Position are different.
I'm not sure what's the exact terms used in the English volumes, so can someone please list them out?
Thus far the English version has translated them quite differently.

Kensai (Sword Saint)= Sword Sage

Greater Heaven Position = Mega Master

Lower Heaven Position = ????

Heaven Position = Super Master

Knight Master = Knight Master (I think)
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Post by Canadian FSS Fan » Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:21 am

Jp Vol 5, around page 40 i think, it shows the taika solar system, cluster, and super cluster.

My scans are very low quality so I cannot make out if the Joker cluster is there (i doubt this is the case?)

I guess my understanding would be, the Joker cluster contains 5 solar systems, and outside of this, is the super cluster that Joker resides in?

solar system --> cluster --> super cluster

thats my understanding.

Where the "crown galaxy" is however is way beyond me.

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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:07 am

Perhaps.

All Nagano has really said about the Joker Cluster (to the best of my knowledge, unless he's talked about it in Knight Flags) is that they are a grouping of planetary systems who's stars are in a fixed constellation in "the night sky". Who's night sky is debatable, but we know that Eastern, Western, Northern and Southern make a cross formation in the night sky with Stant orbiting this cross.

It is my theory (assumption, guess) that the sky from which this constellation can be seen is from Fortune.

The problem with constellations is that they are often comprised of stars not only of one's home galaxy, but are comprised of distant galaxies bright enough to appear as a star in the night sky. This is quite common actually. Thus, even if the Joker cluster forms a constellation as seen from some unknown planet, it could still be comprised of systems from several differing galaxies!

I try not to think about it too much or it could hurt my brain....
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Post by Rubel Colus » Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:11 am

hmm, actually we've talked about astronomy in one of the earlier threads.

This website features "Zoom in, Zoom out" - from Planet Earth we zoom out to the furthest objects in space, and makes it very easy to understand the basic structures of our known universe.

http://agile.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/cosmic/

In short: Planet (e.g. Earth) < Solar System < Galaxy (ours is named Milky Way) < Group of Galaxies (ours is called Local Group) < Cluster of Galaxies < SuperCluster (ours is called Virgo SuperCluster) < Sheets/Walls

In more detail, a Star Cluster (e.g. in FSS - Joker Cluster) is basically a grouping of up to hundreds, or even millions of stars, bound by gravity. There are basically 2 types of star clusters: Open Clusters (also called Galactic Clusters) and Globular Clusters. In FSS, the Joker Cluster consists of about 5 Star Systems.

A galaxy (e.g. our Milky Way, and in FSS - Crown Galaxy) is a grouping of millions to trillions of stars that are bound by gravity. Just like the planets revolving around the central star, the stars in a galaxy revolve around the centre of the galaxy coz usually the centre has the most stars (possibly oldest as well) thus it has the greatest total gravitational effect. It is also thought that Black Hole(s) exist in the centre of galaxies.

Star Clusters (i.e. Open/Galactic Clusters and Globular Clusters) are a smaller subset of a Galaxy.

Then as we expand out, we get Groups of Galaxies (in groups of tens of galaxies), then Clusters of Galaxies (up to thousands of galaxies - not to be confused with Star Cluster/Galactic Cluster), Super Clusters, then Sheets or Walls. Gravity binds the astronomical bodies together and it is the reason why such structures exist. Another interesting thing is that gravity affects time! The stronger the gravity, the slower time flows, which is why there is a theory that time stops inside a black hole.

So going back to FSS context, the Joker Cluster is within the Crown Galaxy, and it is said that at the centre of this galaxy, "time stops" - which is consistent with the theory that super black holes are in the centre of galaxies and black holes affect the flow of time. Also its said that the Super Empire rules over the Crown Galaxy (not sure if there are other civilizations), and dear Amaterasu's AKD only managed to control the Joker Cluster for a relatively short time. Taika is perhaps "another universe" or "another time", not sure how it is related to Joker.
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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:56 pm

I would assume that the Joker Cluster consists of Hundreds of thousands of stars, not just 5. The "Five Stars" simply happen to be the ones with inhabited planetary systems.

In our own Galaxy, stars group together in a formation known as "Arms" and each of these arms consists of millions of stars. The center of the galaxy contains hundreds of millions of stars (all quite old and many dying) and the "Arms" orbit the galactic core as Rubel already pointed out.
All together, our galaxy holds between 200 and 400 billion stars. Its considerd a large galaxy, but in the scheme of things, its not that large (one of our sister galaxies found within the Local Group, Andromeda contains near or possibly more than 1 trillion stars!)

If the Crown Galaxy is a Spiral Galaxy like the Milky Way (though this is debated by some) then the Joker Cluster is in all likelyhood found within one of its Spiral Arms.

As far as Black Holes are concerned, amongst the scientific community, they are really no longer considered a theory, but as fact, since they've been able to use the newest, most powerful telescopes such as the Hubble, to view Super-massive black holes in distant galaxies. Even though you can't see the black hole itself, if the black hole is consuming a large amount of material (such as entire stars) the material will orbit the event horizon and give off large amounts of energy (including visible light) which will swirl around the black hole before being consumed and thus they can be spotted.
Some of the larger galaxies have been spotted with Black Holes so massive that they mass millions of stellar masses (a stellar mass of 1 is equal to the mass of our own sun!) indicating just how many stars they've dined on. Thats pretty scary.

If Neipier was hanging out even somwhere close (let alone actually within) a Black Hole on this scale, thats a testament to the technological superiority of the Super Empire. A Super-Massive black hole is the most powerful (known) force in the Universe. A civilization with the technology to control that would be....god-like, to say the least.
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Post by Canadian FSS Fan » Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:19 pm

Alright lets get this straight for those of us not cosmically inclined :P

Joker Cluster = Contains many stars, 4 (5?) of which the story takes place on (not counting fortune)

Crown Galaxy = Joker Cluster and Others reside within, Phantasmagoria in direct center.

???? Supercluster = Crown Galaxy and others reside here

The Super Empire controls the Crown? Isn't the empire non-existant in the JC era? Or are they only no longer in the Joker cluster?


This is good information for general FSS reference.

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Post by Rubel Colus » Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:58 am

Yes, Nu Soard may be right about the Joker Cluster having more than 5 star systems. I don't recall any descriptions about other stars within the Cluster though, perhaps it juz happens that these star systems are close to each other.

As for the actual location of "Phantasmagoria", there is no mention of it as far as i know. I'm just guessing that its at or near the center of the galaxy because that's where "time stops".

One thing's for sure - there is definitely something in the center of Crown Galaxy. It's gotta do with Optical Taifon, "Monarch Sacred", "Starbust" and several other significant characters. You can read about it in the episode just before the Black Three. Not too sure if "Phantasmagoria" is close to or is the same place, but both are said to be where time stops.

Basically, Joker cluster is a part of the Crown Galaxy. There is no mention other than this. The thing about superclusters, walls and such are only mentioned in the Taika side story.

The Super Empire in its time, rules over all of Joker Cluster and Crown Galaxy. Of coz, they disappeared at about 5000AD.

p.s> Diamond Neutral said that he was sucked into the central core star and was saved by Optical Taifon... so apparently they are able to escape from the gravity well!

Also, regarding Neipier, i juz read the Knight Flags... he's not blood related to Amaterasu, but his family is a part of the group of royal families way back when Grees was first formed. Since then, most if not all the royal families have merged with the main Amaterasu family thru marriages, perhaps except Neipier's Greens family. Also, abit of extra info - when Uranium Balance talked to Mikoto about baby Sopp way back in JP Vol 7, Sopp had just received his succession rights, and the place is Green Neipier's original homeland. Of coz Neipier wasn't born until 2200, and he had to leave for Phantasmagoria in order to carry out his duty.
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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:45 am

Rubel Colus wrote:


p.s> Diamond Neutral said that he was sucked into the central core star and was saved by Optical Taifon... so apparently they are able to escape from the gravity well!
This doesn't surprise me. The gravity well of a moderately sized star isn't too extreme (in the scheme of things) I'm assuming basic Joker technology can handle this. Heck, the Heat Resistance of a LED Mirage allows it to hang out in the outer-corona of a stars atmosphere. Thats pretty crazy.
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Post by Rubel Colus » Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:39 am

The "central core star" I'm guessing that it probably meant a black hole? coz that's where Optical Taifon is... :shock: so its not juz any moderate star...
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Post by Canadian FSS Fan » Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:31 pm

This makes me kind of excited for Chapter 8, but I wonder what Chapter 7 is? That little look at monarch sacred is the only time nagano really kind of jumped out of the loop, and it was more interesting because of it.

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Post by Falk » Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:51 pm

Who are the various characters in english book 26 (I think), JP book 10, p. 180 ?

There's Jackos who gets kicked in the balls by a woman that I don't know who she is, another woman with a nice FEMC jacket^^, an asian looking girl, someone from the Colus family.

In another topic is written that Jackos was Kaien's apprentice, so that's the usual scar we can see a bit on Jackos' right collarbone ?
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