How many different versions of the MH Vatshu-Black Knight?

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LaughingMan
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How many different versions of the MH Vatshu-Black Knight?

Post by LaughingMan » Sat Jun 18, 2005 8:19 pm

While searching through E2046 web page, i came across a "conversion kit"for the Vatshu and there was a resin kit of Vatshu with two heads and two shields (round and square).

Was Vatshu "upgraded" or rebuilt like the Junchoon? How many times?

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Tachyon
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Post by Tachyon » Sat Jun 18, 2005 8:57 pm

I've seen Nagano illustrations for 2 armor upgrades for the Vatshu. The first change is in Knight Flags and the other is an older black and white illustration.
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hitori
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Post by hitori » Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:20 pm

There is no clear mention of Vatshu's modification history.
In fact the only MH whose history is so well documented is the Engage series.
But from the different armor configurations that appeared in the comic, I think I can pick out 6 variations.

1. In comic: Vol 1 color pages - round veil, basic config
-same config in Colus-Hagooda war

2. In comic: Grard Sydmian vs Karrel Crytharis - rectangular veil, basic configuration

3. NT calendar: posed with Decors Weissmel and EST - sinister looking head

4. NewType: cover for FSS section - plated heavy armor

5. In comic: flashback during conference between Pope Spanda and Rune Knights - sword stopper on right forearm

6. In comic: sacking of Hasthhant - heavy armor

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Hydra Mirage
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Post by Hydra Mirage » Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:44 pm

Also in the back of one of the more recent english FSS volumes, there is a Vatshu design which is almost completely different, more like the Terror Mirage almost.

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hitori
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Post by hitori » Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:34 pm

Hydra Mirage wrote:Also in the back of one of the more recent english FSS volumes, there is a Vatshu design which is almost completely different, more like the Terror Mirage almost.
You mean this one?
http://www.gearsonline.net/fss/mh/vatsh ... night3.gif

If so, both Tachyon and I listed it as a variation. :D

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Post by errol » Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:22 pm

Holy smokes. What a sweet variation. I wonder were the inspiration came from. Doesn't even resemble the old Black Guard. I was never really a huge fan of the old design, but this one. Man it sure is cool. Much more intimidating and ferocious looking.

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Post by KOG » Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:42 pm

I don't think that design will ever make it into the manga though. I think it was more of an 'idea' than a final design. Same thing with some other artwork, including an early concept for the Heavy Cross Mirage and some sort of heavy armor Siren.

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Nu Soard Graphite
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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:56 pm

I believe that was an early design draft for the Heavy Vatshu (Decors version)
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Falk
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Post by Falk » Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:42 pm

When talking about "heavy vatshu", do you talk about it like a variant, modified on purpose by Decors ?
Or just use this name to differenciate Vatshu during Decors' era as the black guard ?

Cuz' to me it mostly looks like a redesign from Nagano, not a variant, cuz' it's safe to say Vatshu's design aged a bit more than the LED for instance, I guess that's the drawback of going back and forth when drawing stories :P :P :P

Which one are you talking about when saying "sinister looking head" ?

Well if you vaguely remember where it is, could you please notify in which book we can see those variations ? (well mostly 3, 5 and 6, both 1 & 2 are easy to identify, and 4 is just upon^^) I can't put any part of the story together with Rune Knights nor Hasthhant :/ I have a hard time remembering the names XD
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hitori
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Post by hitori » Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:00 pm

Falk wrote:Well if you vaguely remember where it is, could you please notify in which book we can see those variations ? (well mostly 3, 5 and 6, both 1 & 2 are easy to identify, and 4 is just upon^^) I can't put any part of the story together with Rune Knights nor Hasthhant :/ I have a hard time remembering the names XD
Ack...I'll try to give you page numbers when I go home tonight.

But about the armors...
All MH's have several armor variations.
As I said quite a few times before both here an on WaxTrax, for an MH, it's the frame (skeleton) and Ezlazer engines that determine its identity.
MH Meights generally don't even design armors.
It's up to the owners and their Meisters to come up with armor designs and balancing, weapons etc to suit their needs.

But you can't take armors lightly either.
MH armors aren't just heavy protective plating.
They are vital parts that determine an MH's "tuning".
When Ladios Sopp overhauled Junchoon, you'll notice he changed the armors pretty drastically.
If armor was just a "shell" that covers the frame, you really wouldn't need to go through the difficult task of designing it anew.

Anyways, I don't have the exact wording and source about this topic in my head, but do understand armor variations are actually very significant.
I hesitated though in differenciating between round veil and rectangular veil as variations, but why not...
They were piloted by differnt Headdliners in different times, there must have been some stuff altered. :D

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Post by Tachyon » Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:03 pm

Isn't it true that Decors only tuned the Vatshu's engine a bit and replaced the armor? I think Nagano uses the new armor pieces as his justification for redesigning mortar headds.

Personally, I don't mind it. Isn't it also true that Voards Viewlard replaces external armor pieces on the Branji without modifying internal components? The Branji has at least 3 distinct looks in the manga.
If you don't like the news then go make some of your own.

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Post by hitori » Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:14 pm

Tachyon wrote:Isn't it true that Decors only tuned the Vatshu's engine a bit and replaced the armor? I think Nagano uses the new armor pieces as his justification for redesigning mortar headds.

Personally, I don't mind it. Isn't it also true that Voards Viewlard replaces external armor pieces on the Branji without modifying internal components? The Branji has at least 3 distinct looks in the manga.
Viewlard does that because he usually roams around incognito.
Everyone in the Galaxy knows who owns MH Cormals Bibros.
He has to hidie his MH's identity if he wants to keep using it all over the place.
Trun's Meisters do a very good job at it, too.

Normally any good Fatima or Meister would be able to pick out Bibros anywhere whether it was disguised or not.
You see several instances of Fatimas identifying enemy MH's just by engine noise.
But it took Sopp a close inspection of the frame to be sure what he was looking at.
Sopp is a Meister that can identify what frame is under the Booreys just by glancing at video footages.

So I think in Bibros' case, purpose of the armor is to mask the true identity of the MH more than anything.
But the armor used in Colus-Hagooda wars has a special name associated either with its equipment or its function...can't remember what though.

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Post by hitori » Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:19 am

Falk wrote:Which one are you talking about when saying "sinister looking head" ?
Sorry.
I can't find that pic.
And I believe that pic was only used in a calendar one year.
It has Decors in short hair wearing the plated battle suit of Black Knight with EST by his side.
Behind them is the head of Vatshu and an orangish background.
This pic used to be all over the internet several years back...somebody might have it still in their HDD somewhere...=P
Falk wrote:Well if you vaguely remember where it is, could you please notify in which book we can see those variations ? (well mostly 3, 5 and 6, both 1 & 2 are easy to identify, and 4 is just upon^^) I can't put any part of the story together with Rune Knights nor Hasthhant :/ I have a hard time remembering the names XD
3. See above
5. It's that scan I linked in previous post
6. Eng vol 12, p 85

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Rubel Colus
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Post by Rubel Colus » Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:05 am

The calendar pic?

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I wonder if u guys have seen an early sketch titled "Frost Giant", a black MH with the blood cross in the middle of its chest, and on its back, a v-shaped fin that looks like the Terror Mirage's Boomerang weap. Overall, it looks somewhat like the Black Knight and Terror Mirage mix. Too bad i dont have the picture now.
Looking for:
- FSS Eng Vol 1(Black cover)

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Post by Falk » Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:16 pm

M'kay, thanks for the details and the pic, I didn't remembered the sinister one :) (you inverted 5 & 6 didn't you ? Well the flashback is in book 12, p79 in mine, maybe p85 is in the stapled version^^)

Hasthhant... Mmh, is it the city that gets destroyed in book 11 or 12 ? With Bos Jasforst attacking Kaien ?
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