Lots of questions

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Lalasa

Lots of questions

Post by Lalasa » Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:04 am

This entire thread will have spoilers.

I just realized I know nothing about the dragons. When Suezo was born, did all the dragons die or only the big one, Thunder Dragon, I think is its name? What are all the dragons called? There are four of them right? Do the dragons help out in the fight against Stant? Other than being the tyrants of Both, giving powerful jewels to only fatimas/gods and being spaceship escorts what else are their roles? Does any of the other dragons besides the Thunder Dragon do anything? The last two questions are too similar, but I don't know how to differentiate the questions enough. I hope you guys understand what I'm trying to ask.

Who is the elderly man that escorted Lachesis upon the ship, then down that massive audience hall to hand her over to Amaterasu in page 55 thru 59, English Book #3?

Was page 58 and 59 a snap shot of the wedding itself? And if that's the case, what does the Japanese version say about all of these people (who cannot all be, "...Mirage Knights and...the Emperor's closest associates." Page 55) seemingly oblivious atitude to her "Ladyship Lachesis" who has a startling resemblence to the Ballanche Fatima Lachesis that Ladioss Sop eloped with? There were cameras at her debut and unless these people are completely blind, deaf and dumb to galactic news then they had to have noticed. Wouldn't that raise questions? Or maybe they're all fanatically devouted to Amaterasu and wouldn't tell even under severe torture...

What does Kaien's biological parents look like? Could someone scan me a picture of Solid State Logic in her plastic style suit? Does anyone have an image of the first four fatimas? If you could help, it would be very wonderful. Thank you in advance.

S

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Post by Rubel Colus » Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:35 pm

Dragons are divine beings. They are the Guardians of nature, and they have always been in the way of the demons. Calling them tyrants, spaceship escorts Hmmm... :?

There are a total of 5 dragons only.

1. LED Dragon - Leader and strongest of all.
2. Thunder/Sapphire Dragon (Blue)
3. Earth/Jade Dragon (Green)
4. Space or Jet/Onachis Dragon (Black)
5. Feather/Gold Dragon

Suezo is the young LED Dragon. Yanqie is the young Gold Dragon which will only appear in JP vol 11. Dragons do not actually grow up, they evolve from one form to another. They do not 'die', rather they need to change the physical body because it is worn out. During the young stage, their spirits rest in the higher dimensions, until the body evolves to an appropriate stage for them.

Usually, the LED Dragon will start the cycle first, while the others will help to cover his territory and duties. After that, all the rest will start the cycle, while LED Dragon alone will cover for them all. This shows how powerful the LED Dragon is. However, during this time period around JC3000, it is unknown why the Gold dragon will start its cycle together with LED.

You can tell which dragon by it horns. Also LED Dragon is the only one with split tails.

http://img3.exs.cx/img3/1237/dragonnature2.jpg

The 'elderly man' is a retired Mirage Knight Dageiran Ross. He was Mirage Number 2 before Aisha took over. He's now a senior still involved in AKD politics.


Lalasa > have u finished reading all the FSS books available? Isn't there any Sleeve Notes on Dragons? Even the part about Skinzu can be found in JP vol 9.
Looking for:
- FSS Eng Vol 1(Black cover)

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Post by Falk » Fri Nov 12, 2004 6:05 pm

Yup', english book 7 has a lot of info (well it didn't avoid me to fail miserably to recognize earth dragon from Led but... :wink: ), but your picture sums it up pretty well.

(ah so this old men is a retired Mirage Knight, I used to ask me the same question as he appears often)
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Re: Lots of questions

Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:05 pm

Lalasa wrote:This entire thread will have spoilers.

Was page 58 and 59 a snap shot of the wedding itself? And if that's the case, what does the Japanese version say about all of these people (who cannot all be, "...Mirage Knights and...the Emperor's closest associates." Page 55) seemingly oblivious atitude to her "Ladyship Lachesis" who has a startling resemblence to the Ballanche Fatima Lachesis that Ladioss Sop eloped with? There were cameras at her debut and unless these people are completely blind, deaf and dumb to galactic news then they had to have noticed. Wouldn't that raise questions? Or maybe they're all fanatically devouted to Amaterasu and wouldn't tell even under severe torture...
I don't believe that was the "wedding scene". Amaterasu and Lachesis are not oficially married until J.C. 7777 after they are reunited. This scene was simply the AKD/Mirage Palace welcome party for Lachesis.
What does Kaien's biological parents look like? Could someone scan me a picture of Solid State Logic in her plastic style suit? Does anyone have an image of the first four fatimas? If you could help, it would be very wonderful. Thank you in advance.

S
So many questions!

Kaien's real parents will appear in English version volume 23. (Japanese book 9 page 182-183)

Maybe someone will post a pic of SSL later.

All four fatima are featured in Japanese volume 9 (English #22 page 22)
Shinei!

Tomexe

Post by Tomexe » Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:43 pm

All four fatima are featured in Japanese volume 9 (English #22 page 22)
Except 3 of the 4 in the scene are wearing their white "Gloss Face" masks-very unhelpful for ID!

The only one shown peaking around her mask is Inter City aka Harper,

they all have identical, short haircuts like too... :( again not good for ID in the future. (makes them all kind of look like Laki's current state)

Lalasa

Post by Lalasa » Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:44 pm

Thanks for the info and the dragon's names. I know about the evolving bit, but I was confused. If they can evolve, why do they need to go back to "baby" form so to speak. So I wasn't exactly sure how they went about doing any of that and who went first, how they did it, why they did it and so on and so forth.
Rubel Colus wrote:have u finished reading all the FSS books available?
Nope. I used to have the latest Japanese books but I lost them in a fire. I never even got to read most of the books before they were toasted. It's taken me more than 3 years and something months just to get back to collecting them again mainly due to money and habitat problems. Unfortunately I've only been able to get the English version. Long term, they're more expensive, but at half-price in the Kinokuniya where I am, it's the best I can do.
Tomexe wrote:
Nu Soard Graphite wrote:All four fatima are featured in Japanese volume 9 (English #22 page 22)
Except 3 of the 4 in the scene are wearing their white "Gloss Face" masks-very unhelpful for ID!
Argh...I think I did see them when I borrowed my friend's entire stack of English books. No wonder I didn't have a clue as to who I was looking at. I thought they were all Lachesis, including the fatima on the cover!

S

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Post by Rubel Colus » Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:44 am

Lalasa wrote:Thanks for the info and the dragon's names. I know about the evolving bit, but I was confused. If they can evolve, why do they need to go back to "baby" form so to speak. So I wasn't exactly sure how they went about doing any of that and who went first, how they did it, why they did it and so on and so forth.
The physical bodies of the dragons are made up of elements of the third dimension (the physical world). This physical form is subjected to nature itself - the body will age after a long period of time. There's no escaping this law of nature, not even dragons. When the cycle starts, the so-called 'spirit' or 'conciousness' of the dragon will depart from physical world and reside/rest in the higher dimensions. That is why the young is very dependant on a human companion to 'babysit' it.

As for who 'went first', I remembered that it was the LED who will start the cycle first. After LED is completely evolved, the rest of the dragons will 'die' and start their cycles together.
Lalasa wrote: Long term, they're more expensive, but at half-price in the Kinokuniya where I am, it's the best I can do.
Half-price?! :shock: hmm may I know which Kino and what price? I might continue my English collection (I only have Eng vol 1~3). And what kind of binding? Square bound or stapled? Thanks
Looking for:
- FSS Eng Vol 1(Black cover)

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Tomexe

Post by Tomexe » Wed Nov 17, 2004 6:12 pm

Are the Dragons really divine? Or just divine-like?

Why do they have numbers on their bodies? And why did the floor of the LED Dragons lair look like a landing pad for VTOL aircraft?

There keep being these little things that suggest that someone MADE the dragons originally and that they just kept going, long after their makers had disappeared..

WayS'Lo'

Post by WayS'Lo' » Wed Nov 17, 2004 11:30 pm

Relating to my post in the other thread, i suspect that the Dragons ARE actually man made biological creatures from a bygone era, each one assigned to protect a colony ship that settled onto each of the planets in the joker cluster. Somehow over the eons, while the humans of the cluster lost much of their past sciences the dragons evolved to what they are today and settled on both. Just my view, course who knows what goes on in nagano's head.

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Post by Rubel Colus » Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:04 am

I don't know if they are created or already exists as some divine beings right from the start, but we can see in JP vol 5 'Water Dragon' side story, they were summoned (or created) by Suire the Water Dragon.

If you noticed, LED Dragon has several looks. In the later part of JP vol 9 - the scene with Empress of Flame, LED looks very very mechanical. The version that you mentioned - the one with numbers - appears in the 18000s story. My guess is that the numbers and icons of Atropos and Clotho probably shows that Suezo (LED) remembers them. Even Sopp's necklace is kept with Suezo...

I believe Dragons are divine. Their 'spirits' can reach the higher dimensions, and their abilities in the physical world are unmatched. They have great knowledge and wisdom, not forgetting that they can produce Dragon Drops, Water of Life, and various miracles (resurrection, creating the countless pearls that will form the King Kallamity Gorderce).

It is said that the Dragons are the highest form of beings in Joker now - even higher than the current Amaterasu (God of Light). Of course, in the very end, Amaterasu will ultimately evolve to be an omnipotent god and rise to be higher than the dragons.
Looking for:
- FSS Eng Vol 1(Black cover)

Image

WayS'Lo'

Post by WayS'Lo' » Thu Nov 18, 2004 12:27 pm

Well the story of their origina could be a metaphor or exageration, much like the one in that far off future story where that wizzard guy is relating to events from the joker era and making all of them sound like a fairy tale. If anything thats pretty good evidence to indicate that the story of the water dragon is a fantacised metaphor. And despite their ability to rest in the higher plains, we really do not know how advanced the previous eras were, Lachesis is or will be a devine being and she was man made too so all is possible. Like i said they could have evolved themselves, they have had plenty of time to do so. And i thought Joker himslef was the highest form of life in the system?

Tomexe

Post by Tomexe » Thu Nov 18, 2004 12:34 pm

I was kind of thinking that too. That in the distant past, humans built a evoliving weapons system, and over time it was able to develop this method of not only regenrating its body but also preserving its data by uploading it- somewhere...apparently a repository outside the 3 dimensions we know of.

Lalasa

Post by Lalasa » Fri Nov 26, 2004 9:35 am

Rubel Colus wrote:
Lalasa wrote:If they can evolve, why do they need to go back to "baby" form so to speak.
The physical bodies of the dragons are made up of elements of the third dimension (the physical world). This physical form is subjected to nature itself - the body will age after a long period of time. There's no escaping this law of nature, not even dragons.
Aaaah! Thank you about that. I kept on forgetting that they have real physical forms and those bodies are not just a spirit in a...um...mirage of a form. *grimacing* I'm sorry that didn't come out clearly or anywhere near right. In my language, there is a word for it. English doesn't seem to have it though.

If you've seen Detonator Orgun, I was thinking of that concept in which the main character literally "breaks up" his physical components and merged with the bio-mecha that is Orgun. Because otherwise, there is absolutely no space inside of Orgun for the main character due to Orgun's own...well, organs.

I was thinking that the dragons were able to also "break up" like character of that anime. Although, I belive it was Orgun's doing and not the main character since the main character is human. Anyway, that is the best analogy I can think of at the moment. Which is not the best at all. :?
Rubel Colus wrote:
Lalasa wrote: Long term, they're more expensive, but at half-price in the Kinokuniya where I am, it's the best I can do.
Half-price?! :shock: hmm may I know which Kino and what price? ...And what kind of binding? Square bound or stapled? Thanks
It's the Seattle, Washington state (USA), Kinokuniya. For two months in last July and August, they had a half price sale for all FSS merchandise. They had both square and stapled spines so I got both versions.

The last time I checked which was earlier this November, almost all of the English versions were gone and all but Japanease 1 & 2 were as well.
Tomexe wrote:Are the Dragons really divine? Or just divine-like? ...There keep being these little things that suggest that someone MADE the dragons originally and that they just kept going, long after their makers had disappeared..
Whoa, that's a very good question. It instantly brought up the circumstances for Lachesis' birth for me.

By the way, is this just a fan creation or is there actually a mortar headd called Bloody Jester?

Some times ago, someone said this was Lachesis. Is that true?

Who is the floating man? And is that a mortarheadd or some type of ship behind them? This is crazy, I can't tell with all the red back there.

S

Tomexe

Post by Tomexe » Fri Nov 26, 2004 4:56 pm

You know with the interaction between the Joker and Taika universes, it seems like on of the themes is that "Gods" are really just the remnants of much older, far more advanced civilisations.

Babylon 5 played with such themes too, when it was on.

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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Fri Nov 26, 2004 10:55 pm

Tomexe wrote:You know with the interaction between the Joker and Taika universes, it seems like on of the themes is that "Gods" are really just the remnants of much older, far more advanced civilisations.
I agree completely with this line of thinking. In fact, I think its mentioned in the FSS tale somewhere.
Babylon 5 played with such themes too, when it was on.
ah. My favorite TV show of all time.
Shinei!

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