Who would you want to see have another crack at a FSS movie?

Discussion of FSS manga, movie and omake

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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:25 pm

Tomexe wrote:I don't think it would be possible to cast the Fatimas with real actors. There are no real women that skinny.
Of course you could. Simply use CG technology to make them look skinnier than they actually are. That would be incredibly simple to do. In the Lord of the Rings movies, they used CG to make regular sized actors look Hobbit sized compared to other actors and it worked perfectly (of course, the majorityof the time they simply used a lot of camera tricks to make it work, but in certain scenes where the camera showed all the actors full bodies together, CG was used)

In my opinion, that is the best use of CG in films. To enhance or slightly change something thats already there. That way it looks like it belongs in the scene instead of something thats not quite real...
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Post by Falk » Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:42 pm

Mmh, I'm not sure it would be so easy, but I'm confident that if they want, they can. Shrinking a whole character is easier than changing his proportions I think.

But I think (wo, I think a lot tonight :p) fatimas in a live action movie wouldn't need to be THAT skinny, as long as it retranscribes the whole feeling of the book. Of course the costume work would be amazing (one of my stupid/fan wish is to have enough money to spend it in a custom made jacket wih some FEMC stuff on it :þ), and of course a director of photography which make the whole thing look real (mmh, maybe the most underrated work of big movies)

Also, in this link that Rubel Colus posted :
http://www.fssun.net/dvbbs/dispbbs.asp? ... =4&ID=4678
the girl is REALLY thin, and maybe some ballet dancer/actress would fit into plastic style suits too. With a few camera tricks as Nu Soard said, and aside a 2 meters tall headliner, they would appear really thin and small.
Image

Tomexe

Post by Tomexe » Thu Nov 18, 2004 12:37 pm

How bout music.

Who for the sound track, Kenji Kawai or Yoko Kanno?

SteamTrooper

Post by SteamTrooper » Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:19 pm

Lara Flynn-Boyle instantly comes to mind - but seriously they could use perspective and outfit in order to create the right height to girth etc ratio - if they can do hobbits without CG then I dont think making average build actors into skinny gals is gonna have them scratching their heads too long.

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Post by Tomexe » Thu Nov 18, 2004 2:57 pm

I had forgotten about the Hobbets and also how they made Rhys-Davis into a dwarf.

I think they also used it to make Cate Blanchett look taller too.

It MIGHT work, but I would have to see a test shot.

Thing is it would probably be EASIER to just do it ALL CG, except for mabye faces (wear blue suit) and the voice overs.

LOTR doesn't really fit into 11hours (the run time if you buy the DVD collectors editons of all three films)

Your looking at FSS, and just the main storyline, following Lachesis and Amaterasu through the Debut, the Colus War, and the Emperor Rescue Mission, taking up a good 12 hours.

The nice thing about Manga being turned into film is that you already have a defacto storyboard.

I sudied some film, and a rule of thumb is that 60 pages of storyboard = 1hr of film time.

So each Japanese volume of FSS to be done literally, keeping all the story lines, would be a little over 5 hours long on film.

This swings things back cost wise toward animation and CGI, the most expensive anime yet made only cost about 10 million dollars US to make, LOTR cost over 160 Million dollars to make. On a per hour of finsished product basis CG assisted animation is cheaper ( at lest when done in Japan, and not by Disney) and you can make more hours of story- and thus follow the manga more closely.

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Post by Shadowbrooke » Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:44 pm

Another trick they used filming LOTR was multiple sets, this was done to minimize the allready long CGI-scenes. For example:

In the first movie there is a scene in the beginning when Gandalf and Bilbo are talking to eachother inside Bilbo's domocile. That scene was shot twice, ones with everything made to scale with Bilbo and once again with everything scaled down to make Gandalf look huge. They simply put one film on top of the other and filmed it again. This was done on many ocations in all three movies and it looks great in my opinion. Very pricey but they could use scinematogrophy and shot angles that would look "wierd" using CGI...let's face it, they have come a long way but it is still to the point were anyone over the age of 11 can see exactly what is CGI and not! That is also why I say "make it all CGI alt cell shading/CGI and not live action"!

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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:12 pm

As far as backgrounds are concerned, all CGI backgrounds work very well, as long as the designers/artsits don't go overboard. Again, this works best if the CGI is used to enhance what is already there, but also fully CGI backgrounds can work very well. A good example of this is The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones. A lot of the backgrounds in these movies were fully or 75% CGI, yet they looked absolutely fantastic (I was watching Attack of the Clones last night, and noticed exactly that)

What didn't work in those films was when they tried to use CGI doubles for human actors and the doubles looked far too fake. I'm not talking about CGI Yoda and Jar Jar...those models looked incredible...but when they used a CGI "Stand-in" for a human actor...horrible.

The Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions did it better (by throwing more money at it) but it still wasn't "quite right" when CG replaced human actors. Maybe in 5-10 years they'll get it right.
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Post by WayS'Lo' » Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:17 pm

To be perfectly honest i really liek the first film. None of the mistakes they made ( that i remember anyway) are not salvagable and if they do make another ffs in animation they should start from the second arch. Now my personal opinion is to keep cg out of it as much as possible, i have yet to see a cg robot in any animation look as good as a standard animated robot for the same cost ( cg is expensive mind) and the detail required for mh is more than your average robot. When it all comes down to it the team behind the first film imo did a good job, and i really wouldnt mind at all if any more is done in the same styke. I really really really think that fss should be kept as far away from anything live action though. In my mind it just would not suit it at all.

Shadowbrooke

Post by Shadowbrooke » Fri Nov 19, 2004 3:57 am

As far as an all CGI-anime's goes, I thought they did a pretty good job on Final Fantasy. If you have not seen that movie yet, rent it on DVD and look at all the details they put in to absolutely everything. I agree with the cost issue though, no doubt you would get more bang for your buck using regular cell shaded "cartoons" as supposed to CGI! I disagree with you on one point though, I think there are many anime out there that has done a good job on CGI robots alt mecha. But then again, I could be a bit jaded on this issue since I am a huge Zoids fan :oops: :roll: !

Have a good one you guys,

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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:13 am

Zoids is one of those that does CGI mecha right. They look great in that show...
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only 1 movie?

Post by klingon » Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:59 am

Pardon my ignorance but is there just the one movie?No animated series?

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Re: only 1 movie?

Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:13 am

klingon wrote:Pardon my ignorance but is there just the one movie?No animated series?
Yes. Only 1 movie made of the events that happened in Volume 1[JP] (volumes 1-3 of the English version)

It was an hour in length, and not exactly faithful to the manga. Major characters were missing, whole scenes were left out or heavily changed. Character designs were flubbed. Mamorou Nagano wasn't particularly happy with the finished product, which is why there was never any additional volumes produced, or so the fan-base believes at this point.
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Post by hitori » Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:40 pm

I thought the movie was excellent. :D
There are so many critics of the movie that nitpick at "differences" with the original and refuse to see how good it really was.

You must see how bad Nagano was at the time doing action scenes and presenting emotions.
For instance, the scene where Viewlard jumps out of the window to follow Sopp only shined when seen in the movie.
The finale of MH battle is a must see for any fan of mecha anime.

All the important dramatics were intact and some characters, especially Juba Bardaim and Chrome Ballanche really jumped out of the screen with life.
I don't see what more was needed when a lengthy book is adopted to a movie. :D

About the rumor of Nagano's disapproval.
He was unhappy about the choice of voice actor for Sopp I believe.
But I don't think that was the reason why there were no subsequent releases.
FSS the Movie simply did horribly in box offices because it was hard for non fans to relate to it.
Unlike the savvily adapted movies like Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings (which left out even greater amounts of material and changed the characters drastically) anime adaptations were and still are pretty much geared only towards the fans who already understand the material.
I don't know a single manga-anime adaptation (barring mega-capital-driven Pokemon, Dragonball, etc) that has seen more than one feature movie release.

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Post by Tachyon » Mon Nov 22, 2004 4:07 pm

I also liked the FSS movie. It did change things and leave things out but as a fan I've come to pretty much expect that from manga-movie adaptations.

My memories may be colored with nostalgia. I remember sitting in a crowded, 2nd story room over a small shop in San Jose, CA watching the FSS movie with a big group of enthusiastic fans. We all cheered at the end.

I was one of those ignorant newbies asking why Sop looked so feminine. Someone told me he was really the emperor and he looked feminine because he underwent the process that prepares fatimas for their final stage of development. I asked why he'd do that and the guy told me Amaterasu did it to extend his life. Heh heh. Fun memories.
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Post by WayS'Lo' » Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:25 pm

I agree, i think the movie is very good too. True it missed out some scenes and one character ( who was probably cut cause of cost, hes actually in very early story boards) it helps the movie to flow better. Nothing that was missed out would prevent them from carrying on with the animation had they wanted to. I remember a long long time ago ( mbbe 2 years) back when wax trax was still alive this was discussed back there and the general conclusion was that Nagano hated it and would never see it re released. Well it got its dvd rerelease last year with toys press' blessing apparently so im pretty sure the Nagano hate thing is just a wild exageration from fans. and by the by i think the voice acting was terrific.

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