Atropos' flashback

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Atropos' flashback

Post by Rubel Colus » Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:11 am

There is an interesting discussion in one of the Chinese message boards regarding Atropos' flashback in JP vol 7.

This 'flashback' scene is just after Auge lost to Allen Bradford's Apache.

We were trying to determine the time of this event, and to confirm the identity of the child. Although it is possibly Auxo... but then it raises several doubts/questions.

The scene shows Kaien's arms being chopped off by Mel Rince's Calvary Blade technique... :| scaryy...

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Lets Discuss! ~
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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:20 am

First thing that popped into my head when I saw the picture, even before reading your post, was that the little girl was Auxo.

At first glance, I thought the other girl in the picture was Clotho, but of course that would mean the only other option is Mel Rince, since they look exactly alike. (well, not exactly, but pretty close)

Now I wonder what happened to prompt Rince to get "medieval" on Kaien. Training? Or was she simply showing him that he simply wasn't the baddest dude in the galaxy (a humbling experience I'm sure). Might be why he's afraid of divers!
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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:21 am

And how do you know she used the "Calvary Blade" technique (and exactly what is that?)

Now we know where Kaien gets his habit of blasting people's arms off from :)
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tifacloud

Post by tifacloud » Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:57 am

How do you know that's Rince? Perhaps its possible that the author is depicting Atropos as a observer to an event? Even the clothes looks like the same style as the 3 fatima fates. Furthermore, Rince is a diver, not a knight right? I don't think its possible she can defeat Kaien who is a swordmaster.

BTW, in book 11, when Kaien tells Auxo to find her new master, the scene totally looks rediculous. I know auxo is supposed to be of a smaller build but that scene looks like a father talking to his child. That makes me think of something......Is kaien a pedo? :shock: (After all, he did father maximum)

I love the look on Axo's face when she asks where Kaien is going in the earlier scene. Its one of the funniest scenes I have seen.

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Post by Rubel Colus » Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:09 pm

Mel Rince is an alternate "self" aka alias created by Amaterasu. She is both a diver and a very powerful knight. She is able to execute many of the top knight skills - "Sword Saint Techniques". "Sword Saint Techniques" don't mean only sword saints are able to use them, rather they are the most powerful of sword techniques. Examples are MBT, Calvary Blade, Blind Sword(Allen Bradford used this skill in JP vol 10).


The scene is not a "training" given by Mel Rince, it probably happened when Kaien found out about his origins and wanted to kill Ballanche but was stopped by Rince. Rince also used Calvary Blade on Vos when the Black Three attacked Float Temple in 3010.

P.S > Most knights in FSS are very tall, it's not only Kaien. Prolly related to their superhuman genes? ;)
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Post by Mave » Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:41 pm

P.S > Most knights in FSS are very tall, it's not only Kaien. Prolly related to their superhuman genes?
True, but there is still size-inconsistency in that scene. Just compare to the end of jp book 4, several scenes from when Kaien was at Float Temple during the emperor rescue mission and even the comedic scene before she was released.

Maybe that tight Plastics style-suit shrank her :twisted:

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Re: Atropos' flashback

Post by hitori » Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:07 pm

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Re: Atropos' flashback

Post by Rubel Colus » Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:44 pm

hitori wrote:I have nothing much to add but here goes.
It's around JC 2819.
Kaien found out that his mother was Queen and tries to kill Ballanche.
Mel Rince defeats him as Rubel Colus said and Kaien puts himself in cold sleep for about 100 years.
He reappears around JC 2930's and in JC 2970 Funfuto Atoll reappoints him as Kensei.
Yes, I have guessed that it is JC2819 too, which is the end date of his first Kensei period.

However, the identity of the little girl will prove to be contradicting with the date. If it was indeed Auxo, she is Ballanche's 38th fatima, and shouldn't be there until 2900s. We can gauge this from the creation dates of the Megaera trio (#39,#40,#41), which is already in the 2950s.

Megaera design started 2871, created 2952, met Viewlard as a kid in 2959, awakened 2974
Est awakened 2876, and Ballanche countered Morard's creation with Tita, which is Ballanche's #31st fatima.

Auxo is #38, which means her childhood stage should be much later than 2819.

The only reasons I can think of:
- Since Auxo is built for Kaien, she also went through hibernation along with Kaien. They woke up in 2970s, Kaien regained his Kensei status, Auxo wakes up before Megaera trio, thus gets the #38.
- The little girl is not Auxo. But then who is she?

P.S > hitori where did u get the info that Kaien awakes in 2930s? The date I get is the second half of 2900s.
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Post by hitori » Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:06 pm

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Post by Rubel Colus » Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:34 pm

****Spoilers****



yes, Auxo is originally Focuslight, the first fatima. She only wants to partner Pure Blood Knights, such as Ned Svas, and now Kaien. That's why she breaks down when Kaien 'disowns' her.

Now she's being re-made by Silver Ballanche (Meeth).

Focuslight -> Auxo -> Delta Belune

Older reference says that Delta Belune is one of Ballanche's Eterml fatimas. However, the latest Vol 11 says Delta Belune is Meeth's work, and even states that her master is Colus 4~5~6. Also, there was a pic of Delta Belune (i tink vol 9?) but she looks humanoid, and definitely not like an Eterml. How would Colus 4's mother agree to let him take a humanoid fatima?

Abit off-topic :P

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Post by Lalasa » Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:13 pm

What?! But Hitori, several others have said that Kaien is not Queen's son in another thread. Would someone clear this up, please?

And please, please, please, please, when you are referencing a book, please, please, put either English, Chinese or Japanese in front of it or I won't know which version you're talking about! It's frustrating when someone simply puts for example "book 3" and I look at my English Book #3 and there is absolutely no such scene of which the original poster lovingly described every little detail. It would save me from the trouble of having to look through a completely wrong book. Thank you.

S

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Post by hitori » Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:34 pm

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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:41 pm

Lalasa wrote:What?! But Hitori, several others have said that Kaien is not Queen's son in another thread. Would someone clear this up, please?
Here you go:

Kaien is the son of Super Empire Chevalier Skinzu and Super Empire Diver Princess Vatshu. They lived during the AD era. For some reason (I'm not exactly sure why) they decided to take their unborn child (Kaien) and entrust it to the care of the LED Dragon. Thus, Kaien was put on ice for several millenia and promptly forgotten about.

Later, during Ballanche's research, he befriended the LED Dragon of the time (Suezo's "papa") and after many conversations, the LED Dragon decided to entrust the zygote that would be Kaien to Ballanche. Ballanche wanted to see if a Fatima really could bear a child and implanted the embryo in Queen (also, because a normal female couldn't birth Kaien...she would die from cellular breakdown or something). An interesting side effect of this was that much of the information residing within Queen was downloaded into Kaien as he lay in her womb! So all of Queen's battle-data she had accumlated up to that point is running around in Kaien's skull and is somewhat responsible for his unearthly battle skill.

So, to answer your question; is Queen Kaien's mother or not. The answer is both yes and no! Queen is Kaien's surrogate mother. His real parents are Skinzu and Princess Vatshu from the AD era.

This is all explained in (Japanese) volume 9 or (English) Volume 23.

Hey guys, did I get all that right. I was quoting from memory. I read that ages ago on Wax Trax.
And please, please, please, please, when you are referencing a book, please, please, put either English, Chinese or Japanese in front of it or I won't know which version you're talking about! It's frustrating when someone simply puts for example "book 3" and I look at my English Book #3 and there is absolutely no such scene of which the original poster lovingly described every little detail. It would save me from the trouble of having to look through a completely wrong book. Thank you.

S
Hey, I already do that. Have been ever since the english volumes have been coming out.

In general I always assume that people are talking about the Japanese volumes unless otherwise mentioned.
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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:44 pm

Doh!

Hitori already beat me to it. Thats what I get for always being so long-winded in my replies :oops:
Shinei!

Lalasa

Post by Lalasa » Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:13 pm

hitori wrote:
Lalasa wrote:But Hitori, several others have said that Kaien is not Queen's son in another thread. Would someone clear this up, please?
Biologically, Kaien is NOT Queen's son.
He is the natural biological son of Princess Yarnn Vatchu and Super Empire Kensei Assaram Skins.
However, Queen is the surrogate mother who gave birth to Kaien.

So there is some biological connection between them....Sorta. Kinda.
Thank you. That was all I needed. And yeah, I'm taking notes, in my own language, since I'm that obsessive about details and these notes are what I refer too when I'm going through the books.
hitori wrote:
Lalasa wrote:And please, please, please, please, when you are referencing a book, please, please, put either English, Chinese or Japanese in front of it or I won't know which version you're talking about!
Wow...
Gee, should I like apologize for this or something? :?
To me, the Japanese volumes are and always will be the original and I'll continue to go by that unless I specifically mention that I quote from the English versions.
This has nothing to do with giving/getting apologies It would just be very nice if everyone would do this. If you do this, hitori, then please be considerate to another fan.

After all, not all of us are lucky enough to have the Japanese version.
hitori wrote:There are only two different versions when it comes to how the books are bound: the English version, and the rest of the world. (Japan, Korea, China etc)
*blinks* How they're bound? Does that have anything to do with the translation? You'll have to excuse me if I don't understand because...I don't.

Maybe other English-second-language fans don't have this problem since they might already have an established board in their language. But for those of us who are not lucky enough to be born into the more well known French, Chinese, Spanish or other European languages with a large FSS (i.e. 3 or more fans who speak and write that language) fanbase, I have trouble translating a Japanese product, which in turn is translated into English, then again interpreted by fans who's language might (or might not be be, but it's still the language of the internet) also English, and finally back into my native language.

So, "Just look it up you know...you can put in at least that much work, can't you?" is just far too much work with everything I've already done.

But if just putting one simple "Japanese" word is too much work, then I'll keep in mind the strange netiquette of only putting "English" in front of the translated version, but not "Japanese" in front of the original one.

S

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