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Discussion of FSS manga, movie and omake

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zchen
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Post by zchen » Sat Nov 06, 2004 8:42 am

That's volks' 1st version of the engage octver sr-1. Made before a full illustration of the MH was released by Nagano. I think it was just based a half body picture in an issue of NT?

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Post by Rubel Colus » Sat Nov 06, 2004 10:12 am

yup, notice the symbols on its shoulders.

Wing Emblem = Knight Master. Ex-Sword Saint Harricone earned this mark and put it on his MH. This MH has been kept with the Melody family (part of Colus) and now Arr Fortissimo inherits both the Kaien Male sword and the MH.

Since Arr is now a mercenary under Atoll, the Colus mark is replaced with the Atoll mark. Traitor? :evil: :cry:
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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:47 pm

Rubel Colus wrote:


Since Arr is now a mercenary under Atoll, the Colus mark is replaced with the Atoll mark. Traitor? :evil: :cry:
Traitor?

No way! Since Colus XXII(?) disbanded her family's house, she isn't a part of Colus anymore, so she can't "betray" them, because from her point of view, Colus has already betrayed her family...
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Post by Rubel Colus » Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:48 pm

errm... it is Piano Melody who disgraced the Melody and Colus families by having an affair with Funfuto...

Arr went (ran?) away with the Kaien Sword + MH Engage, and it seems that the Colus family has been searching for the MH and wants it back.
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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Sat Nov 06, 2004 5:17 pm

Rubel Colus wrote:errm... it is Piano Melody who disgraced the Melody and Colus families by having an affair with Funfuto...
Yeah we know this, but was it really necessary to destroy the whole house for the indiscretions of a single individual? In my opinion the answer is no. I'm sure many members of the Melody family would feel the same.
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Post by Rubel Colus » Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:26 pm

In ancient times, if a very critical crime is committed, such as bribery or betrayal, the punishment is not only for the guilty individual, but for his family as well. Many times, esp for being a traitor, not only the immediate family, but the other families from the paternal and maternal sides will be punished along. The "scope" can get very big, even upto the extermination of the entire clan. It serves as a very good deterrent.

For this case, the Melody House was dissolved after the Head of the house committed the affair. A rather fitting punishment, considering the setting of the story.
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Post by Hydra Mirage » Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:53 pm

So it's not an 'official' MH then...
Shame, it looks like a perfect hybrid of the Engage SR-1 and mk2.

I love the Colus series MH, it's the only series that Nagano seems to constantly 'evolve' and redesign. There have been quite a few different iterations, especially if you consider some of the mecha in L-Gaim as well.

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Post by hitori » Sat Nov 06, 2004 8:23 pm

-deleted
Last edited by hitori on Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Sat Nov 06, 2004 9:54 pm

I feel that I cannot agree with this line of thinking.

A king is given his position by birth, not by proving he has the ability to lead or by earning the position though hard work and determination. By this, the people who follow a monarch have no choice in the matter. There is no vote to elect him....no comitee to impeach him if he were to ruin the kingdom. His vassals are for all intents and purposes at his mercy...the only other option is to turn traitor and stage a coup.

For this reason I believe it unjust to punish the entire house simply because their leader couldn't keep it in his pants. In such a case simply pass on the leadership to a brother or a cousin or a son (if he's old enough) and punish the individual for his crime and the shame he brought upon his house.
By disbanding the entire family, not only do they and their vassals live in shame for the rest of their lives, they are not given a chance to redeem themselves. They are for all intents and purposes destroyed.

With Hathua, Borusha simply lost her Diver powers and a new Shaman was appointed. Her whole house wasn't punished or disbanded. Thats what Colus should have done. Simply banished Piano Melody and let his son take the position of head of the family. Nice and simple. Had they done that, the Engage might still be in Colus hands, and most likely the Colus/Hagooda war wouldn't have resulted in the death of their leader. (Headdliners of the Melody family were always the strongest of the Colus royal lines, thus there would have been many more strong Headdliner to help defend Colus during the battle)

I do understand that if one wants a moral nation, the nation must hold its leaders to the same moral standards as everyone else, even to the point of punihsment for even slight violations, for if the leader of the nation cannot uphold its moral standards, how can the people be expected to uphold those same standards. But extending the banishment to his entire house....far to strict.
If we (the USA) were the type of nation to Jail individuals for violating moral standards (and we used to be) and former President Clinton was jailed for adultery with Monica Lewinsky, would it be right to jail his wife and daughter as well?

I say no. And to me thats exactly what Colus did with the Melodys.
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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Sat Nov 06, 2004 10:10 pm

hitori wrote: I can't believe any member of the Melody house would feel they were unjustly punished for it.
They would feel the shame and guilt for the rest of their lives.
They might. Depends on how that individual feels about morality and standards and appropriate punishments.

Obviously most Headdliner nobels would have felt deep shame for what their Lord had done and probably felt the punishment was justified (and likely most wouldn't have a problem finding a job in another house somewhere) but there will be those individuals who feel betrayed by Colus, not by Piano Melody. Especialy those who have difficulty finding another house to serve. In all likelyhood they ended up with Buchtagma!
What Arr has done is that she, a sinner's daughter, has taken the symbol of Colus (MH Engage) and the pride of Colus (sword of Hariconne) and the name of Colus (Melody) to work for the enemy that killed their beloved King (Colus XXIII).
Hard to top that much slap to the face.
Okay now this I agree. Saylay has every obligation to;

A) assist in the downfall of Hathua, since they are indirectly responsible for the death of her father

B) Recover the Engage and punish Arr for daring to take the Pride of Colus and handing it over to the architects of her fathers demise.

There should be now way for Arr and Saylay to reconcile...at least there should be no way for Saylay to forgive Arr this insult.

I'm wondering how Nagano is going to resolve this little sub-plot.
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Post by Poseidal » Sat Nov 06, 2004 11:50 pm

But the Naganoverse is a lot more like Fuedal Japan than a western democratic state; the leaders do a lot of things, whether or not the readers thing it's fair or not.

In that setting, head of house does something wrong = whole family punished. In that context, Colus was a pretty forgiving leader to let them live, in the setting. Most leaders would demand Seppuku, or alike. (Amaterasu did with Sharie Randers, although he did back out of it in the end, and he's meant to be the HERO of the story).

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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:41 am

Poseidal wrote:But the Naganoverse is a lot more like Fuedal Japan than a western democratic state; the leaders do a lot of things, whether or not the readers thing it's fair or not.
Oh, I'm fully aware of this. I just don't agree with it :)
In that setting, head of house does something wrong = whole family punished. In that context, Colus was a pretty forgiving leader to let them live, in the setting. Most leaders would demand Seppuku, or alike. (Amaterasu did with Sharie Randers, although he did back out of it in the end, and he's meant to be the HERO of the story).
To me, it doesn't matter that nations have been known to do this in history. To my personal sense of ethics, its simply wrong. Thats my opinion. As I explained above, I fully understand why it was done.
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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:49 am

Btw;

To me it seems as if Nagano has made a universe with a hodgepodge of earthly political entities.

Most nations in Joker tend to act like monarchies of one sort or another (like Medieval Europe or Japan), but even then many of these "monarchies" are actually democratic in nature (AKD is a democracy even though it is ruled over by an emperor. Hathua is much the same I believe [thus the name Hathua Union Republic Trun used to be a monarchy, but the monarchy was disbanded in favor of Democratic rule) so while the structure of the various orders of Knighthood tend to harken back to Europe or Japan, their actual political entities are more modern in design (there are many exceptions though. Colus does seem to be a true monarchy)
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Post by hitori » Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:17 am

Nu Soard Graphite wrote:
Poseidal wrote:But the Naganoverse is a lot more like Fuedal Japan than a western democratic state; the leaders do a lot of things, whether or not the readers thing it's fair or not.
Oh, I'm fully aware of this. I just don't agree with it :)
Oh God :roll:
So you were arguing over what YOU believed should have happened?
Do you think Rubel Colus and I think what happened to house of Melody is just and directly applicable to our society???
This is an FSS board, not Nu Soard Graphite board.
FSS is fiction.
Accept it as it is or don't read it.

I normally respect what you write Nu Soard, but this time, what waste of good webspace. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:48 am

hitori wrote:
Nu Soard Graphite wrote:
Poseidal wrote:But the Naganoverse is a lot more like Fuedal Japan than a western democratic state; the leaders do a lot of things, whether or not the readers thing it's fair or not.
Oh, I'm fully aware of this. I just don't agree with it :)
Oh God :roll:
So you were arguing over what YOU believed should have happened?
Do you think Rubel Colus and I think what happened to house of Melody is just and directly applicable to our society???
Oh, of course not. I wouldn't expect many people in today's world to think in that fashion.

I was simply stating that I personally felt that Colus was in the wrong on this particular issue so I have a bit of sympathy toward Arr for what she did (taking the Engage and Kaienken and split) but I also see Saylay's obligation to pursue Arr (even though her family was wronged by Colus in my opinion) and retrieve the Engage and defend her family's honor.

I'm blessed (or cursed) with the ability to see both sides of an issue. It is oftentimes difficult for me to chose sides in a political debate because of this ability, though I oftentimes find myself playing "devil's advocate" to popular opinion. Its an old habit of mine, I apologize if it put you off a bit.
This is an FSS board, not Nu Soard Graphite board.
FSS is fiction.
Accept it as it is or don't read it.
:shock:

I most certainly hope I didn't come off sound so arrogant as to warrant a response such as that! :cry: Gomen nasai.
I normally respect what you write Nu Soard, but this time, what waste of good webspace. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
I don't find it a waste. Its oftentimes difficult to find a website where you can have a discussion of that nature without it turning into a flame war or it simply going over people's heads. I enjoy such rhetoric, even if it is pointless (which oftentimes it is)
Shinei!

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