What was Ting's grudge against Aisha?

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Tomexe

Post by Tomexe » Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:34 pm

Rubel Colus wrote:The "proofs" indicating that Kaien had some bits of Para simul abilities (the ability to foretell the future, awareness, etc). This is also mentioned in the other thread.

- This scene where he plants the tracking device on Aisha's Dorey, he instinctively felt that there was something wrong there.

- In Vol 8, he told Lonn to bring the Buster Launcher with her during the Emperor rescue mission.

- In Vol 11, he frees Auxo and gave Meeth his female Kaien Sword, coz he saw his death coming.

Any more examples?

Since Kaien and Sarion never showed any offensive Diver powers, but on the other hand, it is obvious that they have Para Simul abilities, is it fair to say that the Mirror Technique requires a knight to have Para Simul instead of offensive Diver powers?

Also, Tin being a Baiya, couldn't use Mirror, because his diver abilities are offensive and not para simul.
Howabout when he is on Float Temple and starts to go to Lachesis "rescue" and the is overcome by fear before he gets to the throne room because he can feel the diver power being unleashed in there by Laki. But it also seems that diver power scares him. Perhaps because it is the only thing that can really kill him that he cannot defeat?

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Post by hitori » Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:40 pm

Rubel Colus wrote:- This scene where he plants the tracking device on Aisha's Dorey, he instinctively felt that there was something wrong there.
That was not Kaien that planted the tracking device.
It was the MH garage owner.

Gasp! is he a Para, too? [kidding] :wink:

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Post by Rubel Colus » Thu Oct 28, 2004 5:47 am

hitori wrote:
Rubel Colus wrote:- This scene where he plants the tracking device on Aisha's Dorey, he instinctively felt that there was something wrong there.
That was not Kaien that planted the tracking device.
It was the MH garage owner.

Gasp! is he a Para, too? [kidding] :wink:
>___<

LMAO! I didnt read properly, u're rite, the part about the 215MHz is spoken by the garage owner. :oops: :P

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Post by Rubel Colus » Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:22 am

[quote="Tomexe]Howabout when he is on Float Temple and starts to go to Lachesis "rescue" and the is overcome by fear before he gets to the throne room because he can feel the diver power being unleashed in there by Laki. But it also seems that diver power scares him. Perhaps because it is the only thing that can really kill him that he cannot defeat?[/quote]

There has been some discussion in another forum about this. Is Kaien so badly beaten up by Rince in the past that he had developed a phobia with Divers?

In the scene where he faces off with Sarion and his minions, he suggests that he take on ALL :shock: of the Left Wing Knights on his own, and leaves the Divers to the other Right Wing Knights. Although it can be said that it is a tactical decision rather than the reason that he is afraid of divers. The Right Wings were weak, injured and others too old to have a good chance of surviving against another knight.

As for the part you mentioned, Kaien "chickening out" before he reaches the throne room - he spoke of his fear of the power he felt in the Hell(?) Tower (the tower where the evil mob was emerging from), I suspect he is referring to Kallen and not Laki in the throne room. Reason is, he "feels" Amat/Rince's bloodline (Kallen) there. He was looking at the Hell Tower isn't it?

In the very end, Kaien still couldn't escape from his greatest fear - Divers (Vos). :cry:
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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:21 am

Perhaps at that point, Kaien knew he would be killed by a Diver, but didn't quite know who/where/when. That would most certainly make the man phobic of Divers, and absolutely fearless when facing others...since he knew it would be a Diver that kills him. (just didn't know who yet)
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Post by Tomexe » Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:14 pm

In the scene where he faces off with Sarion and his minions, he suggests that he take on ALL of the Left Wing Knights on his own, and leaves the Divers to the other Right Wing Knights. Although it can be said that it is a tactical decision rather than the reason that he is afraid of divers. The Right Wings were weak, injured and others too old to have a good chance of surviving against another knight.
Except Laki was also there.

Here is what I think. Kaine was not a eyewitness to the daemons, Kallen, URI or anyone else (other than perhaps the dragon outside), he felt Laki start the "Seventh Fall" and everything else went from there. When he got there all that was left were "dead" people, Zoom hiding behind a collumn and Schaft kissing Laki's shoe.

I am sure that he thought that most of that noise came from Lachesis.

When he told the "rest of you" take the divers, that included Laki, who could of taken all the divers in the room without any help from the rest of the battered Right Wing present. Or taken all the headliners. But maybe not both at once. Kaine and her togeather though, the Left had no chance at all. They didn't know it though and untill stopped by the image behind Lachesis they would have tried it and died.

The rest of the knights in the room need not of been there, though I am sure they could of been useful.

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Post by Rubel Colus » Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:13 pm

Tomexe wrote: Here is what I think. Kaine was not a eyewitness to the daemons, Kallen, URI or anyone else (other than perhaps the dragon outside), he felt Laki start the "Seventh Fall" and everything else went from there. When he got there all that was left were "dead" people, Zoom hiding behind a collumn and Schaft kissing Laki's shoe.

I am sure that he thought that most of that noise came from Lachesis.
The part about Kaien getting scared - he gave some excuses that he's kinda scared of Mel Zoom coz she can stop time (isn't this a killer move already?! :shock: ), but the main reason is that he sense something "arrived" at the Hell Tower. Laki was in Vermillion Tower (Throne Room) all this time isn't it? So IMO, he's not referring to Laki.

It'd be great if someone can type out the text in the bottom 2 frames of that page, I'd like to see what the English volumes say. Did it also explain the appearances and identities of all these entities?
When he told the "rest of you" take the divers, that included Laki, who could of taken all the divers in the room without any help from the rest of the battered Right Wing present. Or taken all the headliners. But maybe not both at once. Kaine and her togeather though, the Left had no chance at all. They didn't know it though and untill stopped by the image behind Lachesis they would have tried it and died.

The rest of the knights in the room need not of been there, though I am sure they could of been useful.
Kaien + Laki would be very overkill :twisted: I agree the Lefties stand no chance at all.

Actually, I won't expect Laki to join in the fight if it did break out. The rest of the knights are supposed to protect her isn't it? It won't be very nice to ask the Emperor (in this case Laki represents Amat in his absence) to join in a fight :D

The part where Sarion sees the "silhouettes" behind Laki - I had the impression that he is the only one who saw them. What're ur thoughts about this?
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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:43 pm

That hypothetical fight would've been a lot closer than some of you imagine. (assuming that Laki didn't join in of course)

Sure, while Kaien could've taken most of the Green Left with his hands tied behind his back, there was one problem child in that bunch.

Spark.

Lets not forget who she really is, and what she's capable of (12 Light Wheels!)

Kaien would actually have to concentrate his attention on her long enough to deal with her, which just might give one of the other Green Left Mirages (all quite excellent and strong Headdliners) an opening to do Kaien some serious hurt.
And then there is Sarion. We still don't know how strong he is in comparison to the other Mirages, but we do know that he is a Baiya (capable of Mirror just like Kaien) and since he's GL #4 and commander of the Green Left, I assume he's at least strong enough to keep that lot in line...which is nothing to sneeze at (rowdiest bunch of Headdliners in the galaxy no less!)
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Post by Tomexe » Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:25 pm

And then there is Sarion. We still don't know how strong he is in comparison to the other Mirages, but we do know that he is a Baiya (capable of Mirror just like Kaien) and since he's GL #4 and commander of the Green Left, I assume he's at least strong enough to keep that lot in line...which is nothing to sneeze at (rowdiest bunch of Headdliners in the galaxy no less!)
At this time Sarion is still a kid, so what powers he has at the moment is very open to debate. Clearly as a adolescent/adult he is powerful, but he is still, as even he admits when he goes crying back to Majer's lap, "a real kid".

And I don't think HE is controlling the Green Left at the moment, rather he and they had parallel interests and Saurion has aristocratic status, and therefore legitimacy, that the others do not. Zoom was probably the mastermind of this particular uprising, along with Schaft.

I am not sure if Sarion was the only one to see it the images behind Laki or not. We just don't have the frames to show us. But I think they probably did since they ALL left in a huff back to prison- when moments before they would of killed or died to avoid that. I am not sure that some of those hard core killers would have backed off just because the kid got scared (unless it was ALSO because Zoom was not present).

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Post by Rubel Colus » Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:36 am

Left Wing Mirage Knights involved:

#4 Sarion - Biaya. Capable of Mirror.
#9 Bester Orbit - Instructor of Sarion, Nu Soard and Poesche. :shock: He's no push-over.
#10 Spark
#11 Mazor Broz
#5 Spinner
#7 Paison
#8 Kinki
(did i leave out any?)

#2 Shaft - Ten-i. Knight Master. Disciple of Hirarchy. Shaft was dispatched even before the confrontation.


Even though most of the Lefties are very strong, I've listed them in terms of the danger they will pose to Kaien (the top 3 are most dangerous). He is so confident even when dealing with all those 7 lefties at once?! :shock:

As for Spark, she shouldn't be too much of a danger to Kaien. She has no way of using her 'real' abilities unless Madora appears. So her powers are 'suppressed'.

IMO, Zoom couldn't be the mastermind, she just wanted to kill Laki as much as Shaft. I see it as a separate 'operation' - more of each on his own at this point. Paison and Spark went on a killing spree too, until Kaien sent them back. It was only after this that Sarion must have gathered all of them for a more 'organised' attempt at the throne room. Of course, the real reason why Sarion did all these is not because he wanted a coup.

I got the impression that only Sarion saw the images. His para-simul abilities let him 'sense' their presence, protecting Laki.

The kid got scared, he wants out. Bester Orbit being Sarion's close body guard would leave too. Only 5 lefties now. Out of these 5, I see only Spark and Paison who are really interested in getting some 'fun', the others probably joined coz Sarion was leading. So that's why I think all of them left after Sarion.

Just my opinion on the face-off. :D
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