What was Ting's grudge against Aisha?

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Tomexe

What was Ting's grudge against Aisha?

Post by Tomexe » Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:44 pm

I know that the temporary loss of Amaterasu's powers were the reason he thought that he COULD do it, but why did he target Aisha? The two have some kind of grudge?

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Post by Mave » Sun Oct 24, 2004 5:25 pm

Probably the fact that Aisha was defamed when she had to be rescued and I quote the english volumes "...by the likes of Kbalcarn...".

She was to duel with Iller the Bishop but was at a servere disadvantage with a semi-crippled Fatima and a Mirage-machine that was badly tuned. She held her own for awhile but the MH malfunctioned because of reasons stated above. Then cardinal Muse van Reyback stepped in with his Bang Doll.

Ting was pissed that this incident not only brought shame over Aisha but also the FEMC.

IMO its not a bad thing beeing saved by 1 of the galaxys 3 great knighthoods :P

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Post by Hydra Mirage » Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:52 pm

Who are the 3 great knighthoods ?

(1-AKD, 2-Holy Cobalken Empire,3-[Atoll/Fillmore/Vatsu??????])

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Post by Mave » Sun Oct 24, 2004 11:07 pm

Actually they are:
Filmores Kneue Syltiss
Hathuhas Ap' knights
and finally Kbalcarns Lown knights

Technically, the AKD isnt a knighthood :P but i guess you are referring to the Mirage corp?
The FEMC while powerful is a relatively young knighthood only founded as recent as JC 2810-ish.

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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Sun Oct 24, 2004 11:23 pm

Also, the FEMC is a semi-secret/covert order. Its list of members is not publically released. Information on their MH's is top secret. Sure, amongst other Headdliners, this information is known (to some extent) but to the general populace they are probably more like boogiemen or urban legends.

Absolutely everyone knows about the heroic knights of the Kneu Syltiss, A'p Knights and Lown Knights. Illustrius orders which have been in existance for centuries (or millenia in some cases)
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Post by Hydra Mirage » Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:50 am

Strange.
If international disputes are settled through MH battles, and the AKD is so powerful. How did they gain their standing without using the Mirage corps ?

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Post by Lalasa » Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:48 am

Mave wrote:Ting was pissed that this incident not only brought shame over Aisha but also the FEMC.
Typical Ting. Such a loss of face is taken personally.

But I thought he didn't care about the FEMC? Besides, wasn't he the one who messed with Aisha's machine? Or is that just the slant that the English translater is using?

By the way, is Kbalcarn and Cobalkan the same nation?

S
...or maybe my comprehension of the English language is not as good as I thought it is.

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Post by Mave » Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:21 am

If international disputes are settled through MH battles, and the AKD is so powerful. How did they gain their standing without using the Mirage corps ?
If you have the later english volumes they explain in detail how the military and government in the AKD work. The main fighting force in the AKD isnt exclusively the FEMC. The AKD have a large number of regular troops and regular MH:s. These are the Gods knights. One other thing to consider is that much of AKDs power and influence is contributed to their diver force.
Besides, wasn't he the one who messed with Aisha's machine?
Aisha took the female-type Cross Mirage into battle and this machine is notoriously difficult to handle. Couple that with a crippled fatima and bad preparations you´ve got yourself a great beginning to failure and defeat. Which pages are you referring to that shows Ting talking of messing with the MH?
By the way, is Kbalcarn and Cobalkan the same nation?
Yes they are. Romanization differences from japanese i guess.

Tomexe

Post by Tomexe » Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:49 pm

So Ting was acting on his own out of some delusion then..

Because he and Aisha seem to be the only ones who thought that her fighting against the Iller and the Ashura was particularly a discrace considerting that Iller cheated...

...Ting does mention her being put on suspension but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Especially since she was already on leave there for "vacation" but primarily because she cant stand to see Amatarasu and Lachesis togeather and a long vacation was the best way to keep domestic tranquility...

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Post by Lalasa » Tue Oct 26, 2004 5:23 am

Mave wrote:Which pages are you referring to that shows Ting talking of messing with the MH?
He wasn't talking, he was alluding to it on page 38 of English book #12 there is a conversation between Muse von Reyback, Douglus Kaien and Prince Ko-fan Shiemar AKA "Ting". It took me awhile to figure out that those were the same person.

By the way, I'm writing this out for those who do not have the english language book. Not for any other reason.

Ting: "One more thing...She left with the gaskets still sealed on the exhaust bypasses. Looks like she left home in a hurry without a final check of the machinery...But that could be done now on the dorrey...if she had her fatima with her.

"It's already too late, I'm afraid. To bad...Let's just leave her fate to Providence."

Douglus Kaien: "What?! What do you mean "too late?"

Ting: "I can't say..hee-hee-hee..."

Ting then says goodbye on the next page 39 and takes his leave while Muse von Reyback snaps, "What'll we do?"

Douglus Kaien on the same page goes on to say that, "You know what I think? She's been set up! It's a trap! Get my dig!" to no one in particular. His car is right there...so I'm not sure what dig he was referring too.

Or maybe Kaien was supposed to say, "Gotta get to my dig!" *shrugs* I don't know. I'm copying, word for word complete with punctuation, from the book. So all discrepencies and spelling mistakes are not mine, unless they're outside the quotation marks.

Anyway, that's why I thought Ting did it.

I have a few things I don't understand and hope someone can clear up for me. When Ting said the exhaust bypass is sealed, is he referring to Aisha's dorrey or the Cross Mirage itself?

Kaien on page 39 also says to Reyback, "You know...I thought something was wrong...Her dorrey's transmitter was at 215MHZ.

"There's a hundred and fifty years of experience for ya..."

Is MHz, megahertz? Why is this even worth mentioning? Is it because Nagano was trying to convey the importance of this moment? Or to show how good/skillful Kaien is? Or again, maybe it's the translaters who want to sort of "bold" the event by way of this statement? Or all the above?

And why did Jabo Beat call Kaien "Baiya"? I know it refers to headliners with diver abilities, so is Kaien one of them? I thought that was the codename for Ting? At first I thought she was saying that Ting was around the fight area between the Cross Mirage and the Ashura Temple somewhere and was warning Kaien.

S

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Post by Rubel Colus » Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:43 am

Hmm, even from the conversation, Tin didn't do anything IMO. He just knows about the situation, and conveyed the message that Aisha is in trouble. Tin probably didn't bring a MH to start with, even if he did, I don't think he would help. Remember Mirage Knights serve only Amat, and no other.

Rather, it is somewhat Aisha's fault for not tuning her MH beforehand. Maybe Alecto was in the middle of it when she was kidnapped, too bad then. If u wanna blame someone, blame it on Kaien for letting Tomoe know that there's a Mirage Knight in town, or blame it on Tomoe and Iler who used despicable means just to get their target of 30 MH kills.
Lalasa wrote: Is MHz, megahertz? Why is this even worth mentioning? Is it because Nagano was trying to convey the importance of this moment? Or to show how good/skillful Kaien is? Or again, maybe it's the translaters who want to sort of "bold" the event by way of this statement? Or all the above?
yup, its megahertz. Was it mentioned that Kaien actually attached a tracking device on Aisha's dorey? He's referring to the tracking device's signal frequency. Since Muse is not travelling with Kaien, it's reasonable to let Muse know the freq so that Muse is able to find Aisha himself.
Lalasa wrote: And why did Jabo Beat call Kaien "Baiya"? I know it refers to headliners with diver abilities, so is Kaien one of them? I thought that was the codename for Ting? At first I thought she was saying that Ting was around the fight area between the Cross Mirage and the Ashura Temple somewhere and was warning Kaien.
S
Where is this part about Jabo calling Kaien Baiya? Dont remember this scene :P

There is the fact that Kaien (and Sarion) are able to use the Mirror technique, and the fact that this move requires a knight to have abit of para/diver abilities.

My opinion:
Although, I wouldn't really call Kaien a Baiya. IMO, a Baiya is a knight with diver (attacking) powers, but Kaien probably didn't have diver attacking powers. I suspect Mirror uses diver abilities of other fields, maybe para simul type.

Officially:
However, the official meaning of a Baiya is simply a Knight with Diver powers, so Kaien might be considered a Baiya, yet it was never explicitly written that he is.
Last edited by Rubel Colus on Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:18 am

From what I understand:

Kaien is a Baiya. He simply never developed the Diver part of his heritage. The potential is there, he just never harnassed it. This is why he's capable of things like Mirror and he knew when his death was coming (latent Para Simul abilities)

Don't forget, not only was his father (Skinzu) one of the most powerful Super Empire Chevaliers, but his mother (Vatsher) was one of the most powerful Divers. He inherited the abilities of both sides. In his twins, Dupre inherited the Headdliner side, Magdall inherited the Diver side.
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Post by Lalasa » Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:31 am

Rubel Colus wrote:Hmm, even from the conversation, Tin didn't do anything IMO.
No, he didn't. It seemed to be implied that he did.
Rubel Colus wrote:Remember Mirage Knights serve only Amat, and no other.
So why did he bother showing up to tell...anyone? An attack of concience? Okay, don't answer this one.
Rubel Colus wrote:If u wanna blame someone
I'm not looking to blame. I'm looking for clarification. *blinks* Well, as much clarification as can be cleared in such a story...
Rubel Colus wrote:
Lalasa wrote: Is MHz, megahertz? Why is this even worth mentioning? Is it because Nagano was trying to convey the importance of this moment? Or to show how good/skillful Kaien is? Or again, maybe it's the translaters who want to sort of "bold" the event by way of this statement? Or all the above?
Was it mentioned that Kaien actually attached a tracking device on Aisha's dorey? He's referring to the tracking device's signal frequency
Where? What tracking device? When was it put on? Did Kaien do it? *Confused...goes to read the entire chapter all over again*
Rubel Colus wrote:Since Muse is not travelling with Kaien, it's reasonable to let Muse know the freq so that Muse is able to find Aisha himself.
Because Muse is so inexperienced, Kaien has to tell him these things? Then again, Nagano did say that most headdliners were not that smart.
Rubel Colus wrote:
Lalasa wrote: And why did Jabo Beat call Kaien "Baiya"?
Where is this part about Jabo calling Kaien Baiya? Dont remember this scene :P
English book #12, page 74 Jabo Beat calls out, "Baiya! Kaien!" as she runs towards him after the Ashura Temple had destroyed the Cross Mirage and the Dragon had obliterated the Mejojo's research ship.

S

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Post by Rubel Colus » Wed Oct 27, 2004 4:56 am

Lalasa wrote:
Rubel Colus wrote:Hmm, even from the conversation, Tin didn't do anything IMO.
No, he didn't. It seemed to be implied that he did.
IMO, it only showed that Tin was aware of the happenings, yet didnt stop or do anything to help a fellow Mirage. Not that it was wrong of him tho...

Aisha took a Cross Mirage machine without permission from Amaterasu, and even when she arrived in Kastenpo, she did not do any tuning of the MH. Just like what Tin said, the gaskets are still sealed, meaning she didn't even start tuning her MH. Aisha lost the MH battle with Iler was solely due to overheating, and poorly tuned MH, so I dont see Tin has anything to do with it.
Lalasa wrote:
Rubel Colus wrote:Remember Mirage Knights serve only Amat, and no other.
So why did he bother showing up to tell...anyone? An attack of concience? Okay, don't answer this one.
My guess is that he just said because he knows about it? He is not going to save Aisha, but he knows these guys will. If Tin didn't even give out those bits of info, Kaien wouldn't even suspect something is wrong. In fact, Tin indirectly saved Aisha's ass if u look at it this way.
Lalasa wrote:Where? What tracking device? When was it put on? Did Kaien do it? *Confused...goes to read the entire chapter all over again*
Rubel Colus wrote:Since Muse is not travelling with Kaien, it's reasonable to let Muse know the freq so that Muse is able to find Aisha himself.
Because Muse is so inexperienced, Kaien has to tell him these things? Then again, Nagano did say that most headdliners were not that smart.
Kaien on page 39 also says to Reyback, "You know...I thought something was wrong...Her dorrey's transmitter was at 215MHZ.

It was mentioned between the 2nd and 3rd sentence. Kaien planted a tracking device on Aisha's dorey beforehand. The tracking device transmits at 215MHz. Since Kaien is the person who planted the transmitter, Muse wouldn't know its transmitting frequency, so it isn't really fair for you to say Muse is not smart based on this incident. (even though I do agree with u that Muse is AMusing :P ) Luckily, Muse looks much more dependable and wiser the next time we see him in Traffics 2. :)
Lalasa wrote: English book #12, page 74 Jabo Beat calls out, "Baiya! Kaien!" as she runs towards him after the Ashura Temple had destroyed the Cross Mirage and the Dragon had obliterated the Mejojo's research ship.
S
hahah, it isn't the same as my CH ver. I'm too lazy to dig out my JP ver :P
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Post by Rubel Colus » Wed Oct 27, 2004 5:11 am

The "proofs" indicating that Kaien had some bits of Para simul abilities (the ability to foretell the future, awareness, etc). This is also mentioned in the other thread.

- This scene where he plants the tracking device on Aisha's Dorey, he instinctively felt that there was something wrong there.

- In Vol 8, he told Lonn to bring the Buster Launcher with her during the Emperor rescue mission.

- In Vol 11, he frees Auxo and gave Meeth his female Kaien Sword, coz he saw his death coming.

Any more examples?

Since Kaien and Sarion never showed any offensive Diver powers, but on the other hand, it is obvious that they have Para Simul abilities, is it fair to say that the Mirror Technique requires a knight to have Para Simul instead of offensive Diver powers?

Also, Tin being a Baiya, couldn't use Mirror, because his diver abilities are offensive and not para simul.
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