Just received a few FSS books... needs help ! ^^

Discussion of FSS manga, movie and omake

Moderator: kosh

User avatar
Falk
Posts: 505
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 6:14 pm
Location: Babylon Kingdom (well, France :þ)

Just received a few FSS books... needs help ! ^^

Post by Falk » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:36 pm

So I just received books 11, 12, 13 & 14.
This part is great as the story start to deal with mythology and outerspace creatures etc etc, but I'm a bit lost with all the universe changes, time changes, Mikoto appearance, etc etc...

So :
-When Kallen and MMT Demon appear to Queen, what's the purpose of this visit ?

-This may sound stupid, but I don't get it : Who's URI ?

-Who's that Commander Rogner in the Taika Universe ? Is it the same we know ? If so why is he there, why don't he knows about the KOG ? Or is it another one ?

-How many MMT are there ? The guy with a weird front-head says "Why in the hell did we make these three MMTs in the first place ?", then he talks only about Demon and Vinus, and 21 Graphs. What are those 21 graphs ? Which is the third one ? He says Demon is for URI, does URI = Kallen ? Bu it seems like they know who URI is while Kallen isn't even here already XD And who's going to conduct the Vinus ? :p
And why do they say it must be there for 25 billions of year, and Kallen says 5,670,000,000 years, is it simply a difference in time between the 2 universes ?

-p.61, Amaterasu watches the taika logo and speaks as if someone said that before "I'll draw you a helix... Distorted blablablah", does Lachesis said that before ? Why ? Is it in book 5, 6, 9 or 10 that I still miss ? (5, 6 & 9 are actually in a boat in the middle of atlantic ocean, for 20US$ :evil: )

-When Amaterasu No Mikoto III talks with Colus (3 I guess), is it an old scene where she's still alive ? WHat's the purpose of the scene too ? To show that both Joker and Taika have just spend their time fighting for thousand years in their respective universe and have won nothing out of it all ?

Maybe I'll add some more when I re-read books 13 & 14^^.
Image

User avatar
Nu Soard Graphite
FSS Scholar
FSS Scholar
Posts: 1197
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:59 am
Location: Float Temple

Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:31 pm

Hello, hello!

I can only answer some of these questions accurately, so please bear with me. I'm sure someone more qualified will be here to fully answer them for you shortly.
Falk wrote:So I just received books 11, 12, 13 & 14.
This part is great as the story start to deal with mythology and outerspace creatures etc etc, but I'm a bit lost with all the universe changes, time changes, Mikoto appearance, etc etc...
Yeah, Nagano is a big mythology hound, just like me. I think thats why I pick up on his brainwaves so easily. (I guess right about stuff thats going on in the FSS univers with an accuracy around 75% or more)
So :
-When Kallen and MMT Demon appear to Queen, what's the purpose of this visit ?
Not sure of the purpose behind this visit. Its the first appearance of Kallen in the manga itself. I believe it was simply to introduce the character to the readers so that when she suddenly reappeared later (to help mom out etc) FSS fans would know who she was.
I think she was there to "thank" Queen for being the progenitor Ballanche fatima...without the research Ballanche did with Queen, and having Queen carry and birth Kaien, creating Lachesis with this specific purpose for Sop would not have been possible. Thus, Kallen would not have been born. Queen would also be the surrogate "Great Grandmother" of her boyfriend/husband URI (more on that later)
-This may sound stupid, but I don't get it : Who's URI ?
URI seems to be either the Leader or General of Taika forces (or maybe their Emperor/King). He is apparently a decendant of Silvis Venus (the woman who prayed for the war to end and got a reply from Amaterasu, where he promised to send his daughter in the future) and M.X. (M.X. is Maximum, son of Kaien and Meeth, reborn in the Taika Universe where he is destined to fight the Satan/Vagires) maybe their son, maybe their grandson, maybe their great, great, great (so on and so forth) grandson. I'm not sure. But in anycase, URI is descended from some true bad-asses (Max, Kaien, Queen, Skinzu, Vatsher etc). I'm not sure why he's so powerful (He's just below Amaterasu and the Fates, above Spector! On the same level as Kallen) but there he is, right at the top of the chart. (See the Power Balance thread)
If you look at when URI and Kallen show up to save Lachesis from some as of yet unamed entity, URI looks a lot like a mix of Kaien and Max with blonde hair and big pointy elf-ears. (got that from Silvis side of the family)
-Who's that Commander Rogner in the Taika Universe ? Is it the same we know ? If so why is he there, why don't he knows about the KOG ? Or is it another one ?
Years ago on Heika.net I read that the Taika Rognar is different from the Joker Rognar. I have no idea what the official word is though. There is a little bit about this Rognar in the FSS Episode Guide. Anyone know what it says about him there?
-How many MMT are there ? The guy with a weird front-head says "Why in the hell did we make these three MMTs in the first place ?", then he talks only about Demon and Vinus, and 21 Graphs. What are those 21 graphs ? Which is the third one ? He says Demon is for URI, does URI = Kallen ? Bu it seems like they know who URI is while Kallen isn't even here already XD And who's going to conduct the Vinus ? :p
There are three MMT's. I'm not sure what the name of the 3rd MMT is, neither do I know what a 21 Graph is.

URI ordered the creation of the MMT's. The Demon is for URI himself, the Vinus is for Kallen (URI was expecting her because of Silvis vision of Amaterasu when he promised to send his daughter to Taika) I'm not sure who the 3rd MMT is for, but he may have showed up in volume 6 when they saved Lachesis (dark haired individual page 120)
And why do they say it must be there for 25 billions of year, and Kallen says 5,670,000,000 years, is it simply a difference in time between the 2 universes ?
This is a mystery but I have a theory.

Taika and Joker are supposed to be different universes, however it also has been said in the manga itself that the descendants of Taika will go on to populate the Joker galaxy.

How is this possible?

I think Taika is both the future and the past of Joker.

Some believe that time flows in circular patters. That once a particular "pattern" is complete, that it is both the end of one age and the beginning of another. These different "ages" can be considered universes in and of themselves, yet they are all still connected and can affect one another. It is possible for some physical objects to survive the end of one age and continue into the new age. I believe this is what happened with Kallen. She went to sleep with the KOG (for 5,670,000,000 years) to survive the end of the Joker age, then awoke when the Taika vessel discovered her. From the time of the beginning of the Taika age to when they discovered the KOG was probably close to 20 billion years, but since the KOG was already over 5 billion years old at the end of the Joker age, it reads as over 25 billion years old...which is older than the Taika age universe. :?

I know, my mind is still reeling.

Its just a theory though, don't take it as FSS fact.
-p.61, Amaterasu watches the taika logo and speaks as if someone said that before "I'll draw you a helix... Distorted blablablah", does Lachesis said that before ? Why ? Is it in book 5, 6, 9 or 10 that I still miss ? (5, 6 & 9 are actually in a boat in the middle of atlantic ocean, for 20US$ :evil: )


This I'm not sure about. I think he has vague "memories" of this from when his future self visits Silvis in the Taika age. Paradoxical, sure, but considering that Amaterasu is a divine being (or at least evolving into one) I think he'd be immune to time paradoxes by default.
-When Amaterasu No Mikoto III talks with Colus (3 I guess), is it an old scene where she's still alive ? WHat's the purpose of the scene too ? To show that both Joker and Taika have just spend their time fighting for thousand years in their respective universe and have won nothing out of it all ?
When I first saw that scene, I also thought it was Colus III, but it isn't. Its Colus Dis Vice (Colus 19th). He basically created the grand empire that Colus has become. He was a very well loved leader and powerful Headdliner. It seems, that like Mikoto, he was "deified" upon his death and allowed to keep his body in the afterlife.

Let me explain a bit further:

In some religions, when one attains a specific state of enlightenment, one gets to ascend to heaven. As a reward one also gets to keep their physical body (or perhaps is given the ability to create a body for themselves when they descend to the physical world for whatever reason)
In the FSS, the afterlife seems to have this particular aspect. Both Amaterasu Mikoto and Colus Dis Vice have been allowed to keep their bodies. Maximum may be allowed to keep his as well as seen in the beginning of volume 11. The opening scene of volume 11 takes place in Both and in Heaven. Characters in Heaven are looking at the past and discussing what happened. Max was allowed to "go back" and change 1 thing that happened that he regretted.

To answer your question though, no it is not an "old scene". They are conversing in a field on Float Temple. Float Temple did not exist during their lifetimes. Thus it is their divine selves that are conversing.
Last edited by Nu Soard Graphite on Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Shinei!

User avatar
Nu Soard Graphite
FSS Scholar
FSS Scholar
Posts: 1197
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:59 am
Location: Float Temple

Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:34 pm

Another point about Mikoto and Dis Vice;

They lived around the same time (J.C. 2000)

Colus Dis Vice was around 89 years old (a young adult) when Amaterasu was born, so they very well could have been aquainted.
Shinei!

User avatar
Rubel Colus
Posts: 838
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 10:49 am
Location: The little red dot...

Post by Rubel Colus » Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:04 am

-When Kallen and MMT Demon appear to Queen, what's the purpose of this visit ?

Introduction of Kallen and MMTs? Kallen mentioned that she's back to visit her 'daddy' Sopp (ironically, Sopp appears as a female during this time XD ).

Also, Queen is Ballanche's first fatima, built in the hope that fatimas will get their freedom and respect. Kallen is the fulfillment of this hope. The meeting of the beginning and the end?


-This may sound stupid, but I don't get it : Who's URI ?

U.R.I. - descendant of M.X. & Silvis. Husband of Kallen and a deity. He is believed to be the saviour of the Taika universe. Pilot of MMT Demon.


-Who's that Commander Rogner in the Taika Universe ? Is it the same we know ? If so why is he there, why don't he knows about the KOG ? Or is it another one ?

Dunno. Rognar seems to be everywhere, even in our universe Mars Base SID story (referring to Lachi's travels). A reflection in an alternate universe? He sure seems to have similar looks and behaviour. He's probably a different person from the Joker's F U Rognar though.


-How many MMT are there ? The guy with a weird front-head says "Why in the hell did we make these three MMTs in the first place ?", then he talks only about Demon and Vinus, and 21 Graphs. What are those 21 graphs ? Which is the third one ? He says Demon is for URI, does URI = Kallen ? Bu it seems like they know who URI is while Kallen isn't even here already XD And who's going to conduct the Vinus ? :p
And why do they say it must be there for 25 billions of year, and Kallen says 5,670,000,000 years, is it simply a difference in time between the 2 universes ?

3 types of MMTs - Demon for URI, Vinus for Kallen, and Graph. Quasi (Quasar) people are called Graphs, and their MMTs are similarly named. So there are a total of 21 MMT Graphs for them.

MMTs seemed to be built by these Graph people, but then it was mentioned that the KOG series engine Amkd1005 is for Kallen. Now I wonder if the KOG engine was indeed the same engine to be used in the Taika MMT Vinus, or maybe it is a different machine. How did the KOG engine end up in Taika? Could it be so small as to be able to fit into the head of the KOG II? So far, there is no mention or explanation on this.

Did the English volumes say 'conduct'? Nagano's terminology regarding the 'piloting' MMTs is like in a musical 'concert', and the pilot being the 'conductor'.

Regarding the age of KOG II, there could be several reasons. Taika's timeline moves in the opposite of Joker's. This is similar to what NSG said. It could be the reason how 25 billion years is derived. However, 5.6 billion years is probably the actual age of the KOG II. Also consider the time travels it took would affect the ageing tests too.



-p.61, Amaterasu watches the taika logo and speaks as if someone said that before "I'll draw you a helix... Distorted blablablah", does Lachesis said that before ? Why ? Is it in book 5, 6, 9 or 10 that I still miss ? (5, 6 & 9 are actually in a boat in the middle of atlantic ocean, for 20US$ )

I dont recall seeing Lachi drawing the Taika symbol in the manga, but she is definitely the culprit :D. Amat finds the Taika symbol familar because Mikoto had both of the Kaien swords in the past, and Amat must've seen the symbol on the hilt when he was much younger.


-When Amaterasu No Mikoto III talks with Colus (3 I guess), is it an old scene where she's still alive ? WHat's the purpose of the scene too ? To show that both Joker and Taika have just spend their time fighting for thousand years in their respective universe and have won nothing out of it all ?

It is definitely an old scene, when Float Temple is still Patraqushe Island. (before some crazy emperor finds himself too rich and made an island float for no good reason other than showing off?)

From the conversation, we know the man is "Dis Vise", aka Colus 19. He is the guy who merged Colus, Ballanka and Meistner and formed the Colus Dynasty, thus the first Colus to attain the "Dis" title.

This scene Dis Vise talks about the slow development in recent years (did they reached the peak of civilisation?), the wars men fought in the name of the Gods, and most importantly - the appearance of God in various mythologies are signs of the beginning or the end of the world. Sopp appearing in the Joker universe, and URI + Kallen in Taika are exactly what he said - the signs that the universe is coming to an end.

Hoped I answered your questions, but these are just my opinion. Many answers are not official ;)
Looking for:
- FSS Eng Vol 1(Black cover)

Image

User avatar
Nu Soard Graphite
FSS Scholar
FSS Scholar
Posts: 1197
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:59 am
Location: Float Temple

Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:33 am

Rubel Colus wrote:
It is definitely an old scene, when Float Temple is still Patraqushe Island. (before some crazy emperor finds himself too rich and made an island float for no good reason other than showing off?)


Are you sure its an old scene?

It certainly looks like they are on Float Temple (from one angle) then in another scene it looks like they are on an island surrounded by water (patraqushe Island?) so here I'm not too sure...
Now that I look much closer at that scene, I believe you are correct here.


This scene Dis Vise talks about the slow development in recent years (did they reached the peak of civilisation?), the wars men fought in the name of the Gods, and most importantly - the appearance of God in various mythologies are signs of the beginning or the end of the world. Sopp appearing in the Joker universe, and URI + Kallen in Taika are exactly what he said - the signs that the universe is coming to an end.


Thats exactly what he's saying there.

Hoped I answered your questions, but these are just my opinion. Many answers are not official ;)
[/quote]
Shinei!

User avatar
Rubel Colus
Posts: 838
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 10:49 am
Location: The little red dot...

Post by Rubel Colus » Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:36 am

Nu Soard Graphite wrote:URI ordered the creation of the MMT's. The Demon is for URI himself, the Vinus is for Kallen (URI was expecting her because of Silvis vision of Amaterasu when he promised to send his daughter to Taika) I'm not sure who the 3rd MMT is for, but he may have showed up in volume 6 when they saved Lachesis (dark haired individual page 120)
That dark haired guy i suspect is Lucifer Santama. ref. Episode Guide
Nu Soard Graphite wrote: When I first saw that scene, I also thought it was Colus III, but it isn't. Its Colus Dis Vice (Colus 19th). He basically created the grand empire that Colus has become. He was a very well loved leader and powerful Headdliner. It seems, that like Mikoto, he was "deified" upon his death and allowed to keep his body in the afterlife.

Let me explain a bit further:

In some religions, when one attains a specific state of enlightenment, one gets to ascend to heaven. As a reward one also gets to keep their physical body (or perhaps is given the ability to create a body for themselves when they descend to the physical world for whatever reason)
In the FSS, the afterlife seems to have this particular aspect. Both Amaterasu Mikoto and Colus Dis Vice have been allowed to keep their bodies. Maximum may be allowed to keep his as well as seen in the beginning of volume 11. The opening scene of volume 11 takes place in Both and in Heaven. Characters in Heaven are looking at the past and discussing what happened. Max was allowed to "go back" and change 1 thing that happened that he regretted.

To answer your question though, no it is not an "old scene". They are conversing in a field on Float Temple. Float Temple did not exist during their lifetimes. Thus it is their divine selves that are conversing.
hmm interesting. It's a different idea from mine - I think that the scene was indeed an "old scene". Note that the chapter says "JC 0000-2989", yet the more probable year of the scene should be around 2000.

Was there mention that Dis Vise (or even Mikoto) is a deity? In the very beginnings of FSS, Nagano did suggest that Colus 23 and 26 are actually the God of Wind, but he seems to have dropped that idea now, and it was never mentioned anymore. :(

My understanding is that Mikoto and Litra were very powerful divers and they can appear as spirits after they died because of the strong willpower and diver abilities that they possessed. I remembered that this was mentioned somewhere too. On the other hand, Dis Vise is probably not a diver, thus he could not have this ability at all. I suspect Mikoto is not even a deity, just a spirit. Max got transcended as a deity probably because of his sacrifice to save Joker, and probably with the help of many deities as well.
Looking for:
- FSS Eng Vol 1(Black cover)

Image

User avatar
Falk
Posts: 505
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 6:14 pm
Location: Babylon Kingdom (well, France :þ)

Post by Falk » Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:53 pm

Mmh, dankeschön a lot for those extensive answers^^

With what you wrote about Colus Dis Vise, I understand the whole scene better, and I think Rubel Colus is right, as Colus says "I've made a lot of photocopies", I don't think it's a physical appearance of his soul as a deity, a spirit or whatever. :wink: I don't see the date of 2989, exept on the next page where we can see Spaccorn coming back to float temple.

Mmh, you say "URI is apparently a decendant of Silvis Venus and Maximum". Mmh, does Silvis came back to life as one of the Quasar (or Graph) thought when wondering who would pilot the Vinus ? I don't really get how Maximum, supposed to die after he fights Satan, may have a child with a girl who died apparently long ago :roll:

(And yup', the word used in english books is "conduct")
Taika's timeline moves in the opposite of Joker's. This is similar to what NSG said.
Wow, this is the sort of thing that may give me headaches if I want to picture it in my mind :wink:

Well this clears a lot of things, that prt with the Taika universe is great^^.
Image

User avatar
Nu Soard Graphite
FSS Scholar
FSS Scholar
Posts: 1197
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:59 am
Location: Float Temple

Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:11 pm

Rubel Colus wrote:
That dark haired guy i suspect is Lucifer Santama. ref. Episode Guide
Hmmm...isn't Lucifer Sentaima one of the Vagires Overlords?

hmm interesting. It's a different idea from mine - I think that the scene was indeed an "old scene". Note that the chapter says "JC 0000-2989", yet the more probable year of the scene should be around 2000.
Yes, I realise that now. In her conversation with Lachesis in volume 5 (english volume 11) Mikoto tells Lackie that there "Used to be flocks of sea birds around here"
In the scene with Dis Vice, there were sea birds all around them, so I'm assuming this is when both she and Dis Vice were still alive and Float Temple hadn't risen yet and was called Patraqushe Island.
One of my theories was wrong...accuracy drop 5%! :oops:
Was there mention that Dis Vise (or even Mikoto) is a deity? In the very beginnings of FSS, Nagano did suggest that Colus 23 and 26 are actually the God of Wind, but he seems to have dropped that idea now, and it was never mentioned anymore. :(
About Dis Vice, I was only guessing/assuming because I thought it was during 2989, long after both Mikoto's and Dis Vice's deaths. Thus I thought like Mikoto, Dis Vice must have attained a level of enlightenment and was allowed to access a physical body after his death. Now that I find out the scene was closer to 2000, during their lives, I don't know if Dis Vice is divine or not.

However, I know for a fact that Mikoto is divine. She tells Lachesis as much in Volume 5 (English volume 11). In the scene she says to lachesis;
"Let us talk for a little while little sister. Not "Madame", but "elder sister" please. And since I am Divine, you may call me "heavenly sister".

And there you have it.
My understanding is that Mikoto and Litra were very powerful divers and they can appear as spirits after they died because of the strong willpower and diver abilities that they possessed. I remembered that this was mentioned somewhere too. On the other hand, Dis Vise is probably not a diver, thus he could not have this ability at all. I suspect Mikoto is not even a deity, just a spirit. Max got transcended as a deity probably because of his sacrifice to save Joker, and probably with the help of many deities as well.
As far as I can tell, Litra was just a spirit. Maybe even only Amaterasu could see/speak with her as such (and other Para Divers/sensitives). Nagano mentioned in his introduction to FSS that Amaterasu could communicate with spirits.

Mikoto is obviously divine. She can affect the physical world which is a lot more than a mere spirit is able to do. She even has command of her Diver powers (and perhaps a bit more) as seen in her coming to the defense of Float Temple when it was invaded by the Black Three in volume 10. Everyone could see her (Rognar greeted her) and she even got blasted by the demon that Vos created with his Diver power (and she instantly healed from the attack, clothes and all...cause she's already dead!) and she physically interacted with Rognar.

In the case of Dis Vice, simply because he is not a diver wouldn't exclude him from being chosen for divinity. As long as you do good things and positively affect a large number of people (or do something extraordinarily selfless and good) you would be considered for divinity by the PTB (Powers That Be, gods, spirits, angels, Bohdisattvas, Kami or what-have-you) with Dis Vice, him bringing together the three kingdoms to found the Colus Dynasty which proves to be a benevolent, peaceful empire and its citizens flourish for generations, may very well be enough to qualify him for ascension to the Divine. I am not, however, saying that he is or is not divine, because I really don't know for sure.
Shinei!

User avatar
Rubel Colus
Posts: 838
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 10:49 am
Location: The little red dot...

Post by Rubel Colus » Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:54 am

Nu Soard Graphite wrote:Hmmm...isn't Lucifer Sentaima one of the Vagires Overlords?
The bad guy of the Taika Universe, literally translating - "Demon Crown Prince" Lucifer Sentaima. Prince of "Ankar", Ankar is the invading force in the Silvis' story. Not sure if he is indeed an Overlord, I dont recall his name being listed, but he is powerful enough to appear in various forms and even able to attack Lachi in the Joker Universe.

Interesting note about the ancient Ankar troops look like the ancient chinese soldiers of the Yuan dynasty.
Yes, I realise that now. In her conversation with Lachesis in volume 5 (english volume 11) Mikoto tells Lackie that there "Used to be flocks of sea birds around here"
In the scene with Dis Vice, there were sea birds all around them, so I'm assuming this is when both she and Dis Vice were still alive and Float Temple hadn't risen yet and was called Patraqushe Island.
For a long time, I have always thought that he is Colus III (not 23), and the scene happened in JC0000 (as suggested by the title page). But after thinking over, there are a few discripancies.

- Is that Mikoto or a even earlier Empress? Her name was never mentioned in the conversation. Mikoto can't be around at Jc0000, yet in the character description, it said Mikoto had a part to play in "setting" the Law.
- No exact year was given. Although from the conversation "Dis Vise" was mentioned and we can know that he is Colus 19.
- It was suggested that these 2 individuals (and Lader2) were involved in the making of the Joker Law. However, Mikoto could'nt have been around in JC0000 when the Law was first made. So the best interpretation is that the first Empress of Grees (Ladios Focuslight) and a Fillmore Emperor started the new JC calendar and laid the Laws in JC0000. Mikoto, Colus 19 and Lader2 revamped the Laws at around JC2000.

However, I know for a fact that Mikoto is divine. She tells Lachesis as much in Volume 5 (English volume 11). In the scene she says to lachesis;
"Let us talk for a little while little sister. Not "Madame", but "elder sister" please. And since I am Divine, you may call me "heavenly sister".

And there you have it.
hmm the last sentense "And since...", its not in the chinese version. I'd have to check the Jp version.

As for non-divers being able to attain divinity, sure it's possible. The best example is Max. I sure hope Colus 23 gets to be a god though, he has set such a deep impression in me. :|
Looking for:
- FSS Eng Vol 1(Black cover)

Image

Lalasa

Post by Lalasa » Sat Oct 23, 2004 2:16 pm

Might be Spoilers below.
Nu Soard Graphite wrote:
And why do they say it must be there for 25 billions of year, and Kallen says 5,670,000,000 years, is it simply a difference in time between the 2 universes ?
This is a mystery but I have a theory.

Taika and Joker are supposed to be different universes, however it also has been said in the manga itself that the descendants of Taika will go on to populate the Joker galaxy.

How is this possible?

I think Taika is both the future and the past of Joker.

Some believe that time flows in circular patters. That once a particular "pattern" is complete, that it is both the end of one age and the beginning of another. These different "ages" can be considered universes in and of themselves, yet they are all still connected and can affect one another. It is possible for some physical objects to survive the end of one age and continue into the new age. I believe this is what happened with Kallen. She went to sleep with the KOG (for 5,670,000,000 years) to survive the end of the Joker age, then awoke when the Taika vessel discovered her. From the time of the beginning of the Taika age to when they discovered the KOG was probably close to 20 billion years, but since the KOG was already over 5 billion years old at the end of the Joker age, it reads as over 25 billion years old...which is older than the Taika age universe. :?

Its just a theory though, don't take it as FSS fact.
Somewhat off topic:

That seems to be a Buddhist/Asian/Hindu aspect. I.E. Fate and Karma, and the central theme of everything comes round again. The reincarnations of various beings and Rognar, the 3 fates, even the dragons. I always thought that the Taika Rognar and Joker Rognar are the same person. He's the one thing holding the entire story together.

If the English version was completely and utterly true to the Japanese version, I would be a lot less confused and the comics would almost completely be filled with text. Because unlike the English language, Japan uses pictographs (kanji) as it's primary written language, they are jam packed with cultural tidbits and other societal things written straight into each and every stroke of the kanji themselves, thus it is impossible to translate into the English language. Despite FSS having a lot of other country's mythology and incorporating those ideas into the storyline, it it essentially written by a man influenced (quite heavily) by the culture he grew up into and is surrounded by; the Buddhist/Shinto religion.

It's why I don't question the reincarnation and a lot of mythological stuff in FSS, in a cultural way, I can understand it having been born and grown up in a Buddhist/Shinto household myself. And that's really all it's useful for. (Every other thing in FSS, no matter what language you speak or where you were born, would still confuse the sanity out of you unless you pay absolute attention to each and every panel...and remember them!)

This is where I got confused myself. Since English is not my first (or even second) language, the English version had to change a few things so that the English speaking fans and those who didn't know or were born into a Buddhist heritage would understand it. At the same time, the translators could NOT change everything...not to mention that the translator does not seem to be a very big fan of FSS and is doing an incredibly sloppy job of translating. So this makes an already byzantine story even more confusing due to errors that Nagano (who's primary language is Japanese) cannot know is occuring.

Everything I wrote above is personal, very likely biased opinion.

S

Lalasa

Post by Lalasa » Sat Oct 23, 2004 2:35 pm

I also never thought they (the woman talking to Colu and the woman talking to Lachesis) were the same person. You see their clothes, hairstyle and even that "chakra" mark on their forehead. Mikoto has a golden swirl, that's quite bigger than the woman's (Ladioss?) who's talking to Colus. The woman talking to Colus has a uniform "jewel" with no sculpting on it. It's the only thing that does NOT change, where as clothes and hair style can and does.

Does anybody else notice the sculpted crown/tiara on the head of the woman talking to Colus? That crown/tiara has exactly the same flowers and feathers/leaves that Amaterasu wears. It's also worn by Kellen, except there is no flowers or leaves.

Check out that necklace on all three's necks as well. I think it's the one that will be slightly modified to put in the Dragon's tear.

*frowns*

Rognar's nickname is also Machine Child due to that daughter chip right?

So in English book II showing Rognar at his King seat, telling Sachier to get the "mutants" out of his sight and that crazy "little runt" (a diver, I believe, standing next to Sachier and twisting a doll's head backwards) replied with, "What's the matter? You too good for us Machine Children?"

Isn't it supposed to be; "What's the matter? You too good for us, Machine Child?"

In other words, that little runt is taunting Rognar and throwing him down to the same level as a "soulless" fatima and mortarheadd. But you don't get that feeling in the first version. In that one, it's almost as if the short, child-like diver is calling himself names and is proud of it. The same way most African American rappers call themselves a "gangsta" or "nigga". After all, why would a diver have cause to call himself a "machine"? Although whether or not he's proud of what he is isn't of any concern to me at the moment.

S

User avatar
Nu Soard Graphite
FSS Scholar
FSS Scholar
Posts: 1197
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:59 am
Location: Float Temple

Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Sat Oct 23, 2004 5:16 pm

Well crap!

Now I'm being confused!

That might not be Mikoto. In life, Mikoto had dark hair. This woman has blonde or platinum hair like Amaterasu.

If that is indeed Colus Dis Vice, he was born in 1911 and died in 2208. Thus it cannot be around 0000. If so, that would be during the time of Amaterasu Mikoto as Queen of Greece. From Dis Vice's apparent age, it should be around or slightly after 2000, which means Sopp should just be a newborn babe, so its obviously not Amaterasu.

If its not Mikoto (hair color not being a big deal, considering how often women in our society change it) then who is this?

And you are correct in that her chakra mark is different from the typical one we see Mikoto with...
Shinei!

User avatar
Nu Soard Graphite
FSS Scholar
FSS Scholar
Posts: 1197
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:59 am
Location: Float Temple

Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Sat Oct 23, 2004 5:32 pm

never mind.

I believe the woman speaking with Dis Vice is Mikoto. I even believe that she's Divine Mikoto.

why?

Its Mikoto for sure...look at the ears. Dead giveaway (her ears are VERY distinctive)

As far as the Chakra mark is concerned, it changes.

In life she had a different mark.

When she appears to Lachesis (to make her Amaterasu royalty) she is wearing a different one.

When she was talking to Dis Vice it was different yet again.

When she appeared during the assault on Float Temple, she isn't wearing one at all!

In every scene though, those Big Funky-looking ears never change.

Also, she has blonde or platinum hair in every scene where she appears after her death. Thus this gives me pause when discussing the Mikoto/Dis Vice seen. She may have already ascended by the time of this conversation. In all the scenes with young Sop/Amaterasu, Mikoto had dark hair. In every scene where she is Divine, Mikoto had platinum hair. In the scene with Dis Vice...her hair is platinum.

I know, I'm obsessing, but I hate being confused about simple scenes like this (even though the message of that small scene is obviously incredibly important in the scheme of things)
Shinei!

User avatar
Falk
Posts: 505
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 6:14 pm
Location: Babylon Kingdom (well, France :þ)

Post by Falk » Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:58 pm

Héhé, but here's another problem :
When she's talking with lachesis, there are tiny stars shinning all around her, when she's talking with Colus Dis Vice, there are no stars :wink: .

Maybe she found her favourite hair color in her old days and kept it in heaven ? :wink:
Image

Lalasa

Post by Lalasa » Sat Oct 23, 2004 8:28 pm

I was wondering about that too. Buddha's ears. *laughs* Yeah, Buddha also had those ears. Anyone with long earlobes are considered blessed or "Buddha touched". So I never considered them since I thought Amaterasu had them as well as Silvis...looking at Amaterasu, he doesn't.

I see about that chakra thing. I don't have the rest of the books, only 1-4 and 9-12, but my friend who does have them said she wore a chakra all the time. Heh...I desperately want to ge the rest, but no funds. XD

S

Post Reply