Hello, and Empress Flame question

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Lalasa

Hello, and Empress Flame question

Post by Lalasa » Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:01 am

Hello, I'm new. Not to the FSS fandom itself, but to the board. I remembered seeing the original Japanese manga on store shelves in 1993, when I was about 11 or 12. Read about it. Liked it. Bought 1, 2 and 3 sometimes later that year Lost it (still mad about that) and was surprised when a friend not only bought me various English chapters, but also models and toys totaling nearly 130 dollars earlier this year.

He also gave me the link to this messageboard. So, yaay for a very kind, very good friends and the fact that there IS an English fanbase. I honestly thought I was the only FSS fan in the United States. Maybe because of my inability to use google or any search engine (or proper usage of the English language apparently), I couldn't find any other active boards. I only met the friend who gave me this link a year and a half ago.

I am very happy to see the extensive files and information on Gearsonline's FSS page. It is truly beautiful!

I would like to ask if anyone knows who this person is? Is she a fatima? That IS the Empress Flame behind her is it not? The Mortarheadd looks very strange, it seems to be missing a few panels on its head gear and shoulders?

http://www.csusm.edu/anime/galleries/F- ... sm/red.jpg

Thank you for creating the website and this messageboard! I'm so excited, and I will visit often.

S

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Nu Soard Graphite
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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:59 pm

Hello and Welcome!

So you've been a FSS fan all those years, yet had no one with whom to share it. I feel you, I had much the same problem myself until I found Heika.net.
You think this place is great (and it is!) but Heika was the original home for english-speaking fans of FSS for many years. The website is still up (http://www.heika.net) but its dying a slow death, so we come here now. I suggest you check it out before it goes down (which should be any day now, the web master gave us a warning about a month ago)

As far as the picture is concerned;

The fatima is Concord who is the Fatima of Jabo Beat of Hathua and later, her son Dupre. The Empress of Flame is the "flag" Mortar Headd of Hathua Union Republic and is piloted by their top knight...the Needol Chevalier. It was given to Jabo by Megumika, then passed on to her son after he matures enough to enter combat.
The Empress is special in the fact that it is quite an old MH, but one of the most powerful as it mounts an engine salvaged from an ancient Machine Messiah called the Yen Xing (the MM that show up in Japanese volume 9 or English volume 22). The engine generates so much energy that some of it bleeds off into the atmosphere as electricity. This makes the Empress glow and crackle with energy (and it sets surrounding foilage aflame, making the Empress leave fire wherever she walks!)
Good stuff!
Shinei!

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Post by Daishikaze » Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:01 pm

^ that is soooooooooo cool, I wish I could afford more FSS manga, but it is really impossible for me at the moment. I became interested in FSS when I saw an HK DVD at a local Flea Market ( I didn't buy, stupid me) and I checked it out on the net an like what I saw. I was glad when I found out about the English edition of the manga, but Amazon.de only has a few issues and there are huge gaps inbetween. I bought Volume 1, but I haven't been able to find volume 2 in Europe yet.

That Empress of Flame rocks though, anyone have any line art for it??
Dr. Mystico: I'll build a private army of super-apes and take over Cleveland!
Cosgrove: Don't you mean the world?
Dr. Mystico: I meant the world, yes. What did I say? Cleveland? Oh, I *always* do that!

Lalasa

Post by Lalasa » Sun Oct 17, 2004 8:35 pm

Thank you for answering my question, Nu Soard Graphite. Isn't diamond, in terms of minerals, the hardest known substance and is formed from graphite? I always translated Soard Graphite's name as "eternal, razor edge".

*grins* Nagano is very lyrical at times.
Nu Soard Graphite wrote: The fatima is Concord who is the Fatima of Jabo Beat of Hathua and later, her son Dupre.
I didn't know that. I thought Concord went to Maximum. Isn't Maximum also Jabo's son, whose twin is Magdoll? Or did I get it wrong and mixed up Dupre/Maximum? What does Dupre look like? Or are they the same person?!

Ack, I'm so confused. Nagano gives too many names to too many characters. But that's why I'm still a fan after all these years. Chasing after these little, but important details is never boring.

The Empress Flame is truly beautiful. Is Needol and Nidol/Needle the same person? Nidol is what I see on a lot of Japanese FSS sites. I read somewhere on this forum that many characters in the current time line was named after heros or important people from the Super Empire time.
Daishikaze wrote:That Empress of Flame rocks though, anyone have any line art for it??
Oh yes, she does! Wait...she...he...it? Are there actual sexual organs in the MH and MM's? 0.< I never could understand that portion of it.

Also the Yen Xing: Is that written in kanji, katakana or hiragana? I'd like to know where I can find the pictograph, if there is one, to figure out what it means. Maybe someone here would save me the trouble and they know the answer?

S

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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Sun Oct 17, 2004 8:57 pm

Lalasa wrote:Thank you for answering my question, Nu Soard Graphite. Isn't diamond, in terms of minerals, the hardest known substance and is formed from graphite? I always translated Soard Graphite's name as "eternal, razor edge".
Not a problem. glad I can help.
*grins* Nagano is very lyrical at times.
Oh, indeed he can.
I thought Concord went to Maximum. Isn't Maximum also Jabo's son, whose twin is Magdoll? Or did I get it wrong and mixed up Dupre/Maximum? What does Dupre look like? Or are they the same person?!
Nope. Dupre is Magdall's twin and Jabo's son. Maximum is the daughter of Kaien and Meeth. Meeth was in love with Kaien and wanted to be his woman but he declined (Kaien saw her more like a daughter cause he knew her since she was little) so Meeth fooled Kaien by placing her a womb into Auxo with her own (Meeth's) ovum so that Kaien would impregnate Auxo when next he was feeling randy. Then when that was done she transferred the fetus back to her own body (I think). She used information that Ballanche was working on to modify her ovum and prepare it for Kaien (a normal woman's egg cannot withstand the introduction of Kaien's DNA and would be destroyed) and thats how we get Maximum. So Max and Dupre are half-brothers.
Ack, I'm so confused. Nagano gives too many names to too many characters. But that's why I'm still a fan after all these years. Chasing after these little, but important details is never boring.
I agree! Its all the little details and plethora of characters that has kept me interested for well over 10 years.
The Empress Flame is truly beautiful. Is Needol and Nidol/Needle the same person? Nidol is what I see on a lot of Japanese FSS sites. I read somewhere on this forum that many characters in the current time line was named after heros or important people from the Super Empire time.
Its probably supposed to be "Needle" but people put the more phoenetic "Needol" and the Japanese would spell it "Nidol" so technically any are correct.

You are correct about many of the MH's and some characters being named after important Heros of the Super Empire. There is a thread here with the character power chart and you can see where the names of many of the major MH's come from (Super Empire Chevaliers)
Daishikaze wrote:That Empress of Flame rocks though, anyone have any line art for it??
Lalasa wrote: Oh yes, she does! Wait...she...he...it? Are there actual sexual organs in the MH and MM's? 0.< I never could understand that portion of it.
Well, many MH's have sculpted faces beneath their face-mask armor and by this you can usually tell if a MH is supposed to be male or female. Of course with the Empress you can simply tell by looking at it!

The Knight of Gold being one exception, is hermaphroditic just like its owner Amaterasu (the clues are in the swords and the KOG's crest. The hilts of his swords are of course obviously phallic, while the top of the crest is carved very much in the shape of certain parts of the female anatomy...Nagano himself has confirmed this!)
Also the Yen Xing: Is that written in kanji, katakana or hiragana? I'd like to know where I can find the pictograph, if there is one, to figure out what it means. Maybe someone here would save me the trouble and they know the answer?
Yen Xing is written in Chinese. Much of the writing seen during the Super Empire portion of Volume 9 is written in chinese. In the english version of volume 9 (Volumes 21 and 22) much of the chinese writing goes untranslated at Nagano's request. Mostly the lines spoken by Astarte, the personal guard of The Empress of Flame.
Shinei!

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Post by Falk » Sun Oct 17, 2004 8:59 pm

Hi and welcome^^

Mmh, is this really the Empress ? Or is it the Goat Mirage ? (Or maybe it's a design change or whatever)

But I remember we had a discussion on WaxTrax about the Empress and Goat, the Empress having small gold horns close to the head, and the Goat Mirage avec big black horns.
The Mortarheadd looks very strange, it seems to be missing a few panels on its head gear and shoulders?
It's just the style of the cover, look the shadows behind, it's like a sort of MH cemetery.
Also the Yen Xing: Is that written in kanji, katakana or hiragana? I'd like to know where I can find the pictograph, if there is one, to figure out what it means. Maybe someone here would save me the trouble and they know the answer?
Mmh you can look here : http://batman2001.cool.ne.jp/gallery/FS ... es/p3b.htm though I don't know if it's the guy who wrote it this way or if it's the way it's written in the manga.
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Post by Zoxesyr » Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:04 am

Nu Soard Graphite wrote:Yen Xing is written in Chinese. Much of the writing seen during the Super Empire portion of Volume 9 is written in chinese. In the english version of volume 9 (Volumes 21 and 22) much of the chinese writing goes untranslated at Nagano's request. Mostly the lines spoken by Astarte, the personal guard of The Empress of Flame.
Do we have an english translation of the chinese anywhere? Is it on waxtrax?

Lalasa

Post by Lalasa » Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:45 am

Nu Soard Graphite wrote:Dupre is Magdall's twin and Jabo's son. Maximum is the daughter of Kaien and Meeth...So Max and Dupre are half-brothers.
Daughter? Half-brothers? Does that mean Maximum is hermaphroditic like Amaterasu?
Nu Soard Graphite wrote:Meeth was in love with Kaien and wanted to be his woman but he declined ...so Meeth fooled Kaien by placing her a womb into Auxo with her own (Meeth's) ovum so that Kaien would impregnate Auxo when next he was feeling randy. Then when that was done she transferred the fetus back to her own body (I think). She used information that Ballanche was working on to modify her ovum and prepare it for Kaien (a normal woman's egg cannot withstand the introduction of Kaien's DNA and would be destroyed) and thats how we get Maximum.
...Desperate woman. *blank look*

Is Maximum truly her son (daughter)? I had talked to a Japanese FSS fan several years ago who said that genetically Maximum cannot be Meeth's child simply due to the extreme amount of...renovation?...of her ovum that she performed. Essentially, all she did was just donate a fleck of DNA, carry and birth him. Is that true? (Due to language barriers I didn't know Meeth was Maximum's mother until you gave me that info. Thank you.)

How many children does Kaien have? I heard anywhere from 3 to 5! Is Maximum his youngest?
Falk wrote: Hi and welcome^^
Thank you for the welcome and hello to you too!
Falk wrote: Or is it the Goat Mirage ?
@_@ You're right, there are a pair of blatant black horns in that picture on a red and gold headgear. The Empress Flame has small, tightly curled golden horns with a white headgear trimmed in gold. So Concord is with the Goat Mirage? How did that happen?
Falk wrote: Mmh you can look here : http://batman2001.cool.ne.jp/gallery/FS ... es/p3b.htm though I don't know if it's the guy who wrote it this way or if it's the way it's written in the manga.
Thank you for that link! I wonder if Chinese kanji works the same way as Japanese. Meaning I must count the strokes to figure out where it is in the dictionary. *wincing* I have Chinese relatives and they'll just love to hear about my ignorance.

S

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Post by Rubel Colus » Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:31 am

Hi, its great to have another FSS fan here! ;)
Lalasa wrote:
Nu Soard Graphite wrote:Dupre is Magdall's twin and Jabo's son. Maximum is the daughter of Kaien and Meeth...So Max and Dupre are half-brothers.
Daughter? Half-brothers? Does that mean Maximum is hermaphroditic like Amaterasu?
Max is a boy, despite what u might have seen. I think NSG mis-typed on that.. supposed to be "Max is the son of..."
Lalasa wrote: ...Desperate woman. *blank look*

Is Maximum truly her son (daughter)? I had talked to a Japanese FSS fan several years ago who said that genetically Maximum cannot be Meeth's child simply due to the extreme amount of...renovation?...of her ovum that she performed. Essentially, all she did was just donate a fleck of DNA, carry and birth him. Is that true? (Due to language barriers I didn't know Meeth was Maximum's mother until you gave me that info. Thank you.)

How many children does Kaien have? I heard anywhere from 3 to 5! Is Maximum his youngest?
I would say that Max is indeed Meeth's son, even though there were obviously alot of manipulation of genes, and even the need for a fatima womb. Some people might consider Max to be half-fatima, suggesting that he is fatima #46. I guess it can be said that it is a gray area, the borderline between science and nature, and men trying to be gods. The old Dr Ballanche is definitely trying to challenge the gods, and even succeeded in creating one (Lachesis)!

Kaien fathered 3 children. Magdoll and Dupre with Jabo, and Max with Meeth. I've never read that he has more :shock: where was it mentioned? Max is indeed youngest of the three.

And that MH might be Goat Mirage like what Falk mentioned. There are the color differences, the horns and the Mirage Mark.
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ro3159

Post by ro3159 » Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:33 am

Hi, Lalasa
I think this is Goat Mirage. Because the MH includes mirage mark in forehead. And there are also some mirage machine in background. But as you know, here is Concord, it cannot be in fact. :?

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Post by Rubel Colus » Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:35 am

Zoxesyr wrote:
Nu Soard Graphite wrote:Yen Xing is written in Chinese. Much of the writing seen during the Super Empire portion of Volume 9 is written in chinese. In the english version of volume 9 (Volumes 21 and 22) much of the chinese writing goes untranslated at Nagano's request. Mostly the lines spoken by Astarte, the personal guard of The Empress of Flame.
Do we have an english translation of the chinese anywhere? Is it on waxtrax?
if u have the pages scanned I can help u translate. I dont have the english ver :?

BTW, i remember Astarte appeared for 2 frames only rite? I'm very interested to know the origins of this character...
Looking for:
- FSS Eng Vol 1(Black cover)

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Lalasa

Post by Lalasa » Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:32 am

Rubel Colus wrote:Hi, its great to have another FSS fan here! ;)
It is great to know that this board exists. ^__^
Rubel Colus wrote:Max is a boy, despite what u might have seen. I think NSG mis-typed on that.. supposed to be "Max is the son of..."
Oh...*emberrassed*...thanks for clearing that up. When I read that, I immediately called my friend up and got him out of bed at 12 in the morning to ask him this. I see that Nagano seems to enjoy putting his more feminine male characters into dresses complete with bows, delicate jewelry and mary jane slippers.

...Oh god, my friend will kill me the next time he sees me! XD

Half fatima...I don't understand though. Who is Jabo Beat? How is she able to have Kaien's children without any adverse effects? Is it because she is "knight material", a headdliner?

What exactly did Meeth do to her ovum to achieve conception?

Maximum is male. No if, ands or buts about it. Okay, got Max down. (I found a fan art of Solid State Logic! I was so happy, but I mistook her for Max at first. XD) What about the other two? Magdoll is female? And Dupre is male?
Rubel Colus wrote:Kaien fathered 3 children...I've never read that he has more :shock: where was it mentioned...
Oh, no, not on this board or any others. Over the years, I hear rumors that kept on becoming more tangled up and this was one of them.
ro3159 wrote:Hi, Lalasa
I think this is Goat Mirage. Because the MH includes mirage mark in forehead. And there are also some mirage machine in background. But as you know, here is Concord, it cannot be in fact. :?
Hello, Ro. Yes, I believe Falk is right that this is the Goat Mirage. Maybe Concoard is in the issue that this artwork was done for? Oh, dear, now, I have to go find it to figure this out.

S

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Post by Rubel Colus » Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:24 am

Lalasa wrote:
Rubel Colus wrote:Hi, its great to have another FSS fan here! ;)
It is great to know that this board exists. ^__^
yeah, it's quite hard to find any FSS english sites :?
Lalasa wrote:Oh...*emberrassed*...thanks for clearing that up. When I read that, I immediately called my friend up and got him out of bed at 12 in the morning to ask him this. I see that Nagano seems to enjoy putting his more feminine male characters into dresses complete with bows, delicate jewelry and mary jane slippers.
u're rite about that. there's something about Nagano - he likes to make men/boys appear otherwise. :P Sopp, Sarion, Max, Neutral... >__<
Lalasa wrote: Half fatima...I don't understand though. Who is Jabo Beat? How is she able to have Kaien's children without any adverse effects? Is it because she is "knight material", a headdliner?

What exactly did Meeth do to her ovum to achieve conception?
Jabo Beat (or Beet) the blond lady with long hair, the number 1 headliner of Hathuha's Atoll BS (Svans team), and later the pilot of Empress Flame. She was killed, along with Mirage Knights Corlala and Poesche, by Vos.

Usually, it is hard for strong headliners to have any offsprings as their reproductive cells will kill or repel the other. This is especially so for Kaien, a pure blood headliner. This might be the reason why even though Kaien is known to be very flirtatious, he didnt fathered that many children.

The issue on how Dupre and Magdoll were born was mentioned in JP vol 11. Meeth said both the foetus suppressed their powers in order to survive, yet after they were born, the twins somehow regained their powers. It is not known how - at least it was unknown by Meeth.

Hmm, "half fatima" :oops: is somewhat my own opinion. Some people do infact consider Max as "somewhat fatima". As i mentioned earlier, it seems to me that it is very much a gray area, since genetic manipulation did occur. How much different is a fatima from a human anyway? We dont know what Meeth did, except that she injected the "alterations" (programs or infomation) in multiple stages, and even transplanted a fatima's womb to her own body in order to maintain the foetus. Other than the fact that a fatima is born in a "lab" and they have a crystal, to me there isn't so much of a difference.
Lalasa wrote: Maximum is male. No if, ands or buts about it. Okay, got Max down. (I found a fan art of Solid State Logic! I was so happy, but I mistook her for Max at first. XD) What about the other two? Magdoll is female? And Dupre is male?
yap, u got that rite ;) Magdoll - the female Diver Empress of Atoll, and Dupre her twin headliner brother.
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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:28 am

Lalasa wrote:
Nu Soard Graphite wrote:Dupre is Magdall's twin and Jabo's son. Maximum is the daughter of Kaien and Meeth...So Max and Dupre are half-brothers.
Daughter? Half-brothers? Does that mean Maximum is hermaphroditic like Amaterasu?
Oops! I meant Max is meeth's son, SON. :oops:
Shinei!

Lalasa

Post by Lalasa » Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:47 am

*laughs* Thank you for the clarification, NSG.

It took me almost six hours to finally understand what you wrote, Rubel Colus. It's not your writing, it's just my grasp of the English language seems to be slipping. XD

Does anyone have any images of Dr. Diamond Neutral? Who is this man at the very bottom of the page in between Maegera and MH (What is that?! It's a very nice design...) dressed in all red, white black and gold holding the "male" sword?

http://heika.net/html/newix.htm

S

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