Just a question...

Models and Toys Related to Five Star Stories

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Norsehound

Post by Norsehound » Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:35 am

It would be nice to know if WSC stands for something, before I know what it is I should or should not be buying....

I just got here... I'm not familiar with the lingo.

elemental

Post by elemental » Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:39 am

Hi Norsehound...

WSC is a brand... Work Shop Cast. You will see their kits on HLJ.

Their parts quality and castings are excellent, but they tend to make better "chunky" style mortar headds. They aren't so good at making the slimmer, more feminine mortar headds.

Norsehound

Post by Norsehound » Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:42 am

What would class as slim and feminine as opposed to 'Chunky?'

I assume you mean comparing the Emperess flame as opposed to a Siren... what I'm looking for mostly are the Bang Doll/AToll/Berlin in pretty much that order, since they're my favorite MHs.

Then again the mighty series are also neat MHs, and I've seen them in kit form, but not for sale on any of the two places mentioned earlier in this thread.

jinnai

Post by jinnai » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:39 pm

By far, I honestly do believe that the 1/100 A-Toll BS Cobra by WSC is the BEST rendition of the A-Toll.

I'm not completely against WSC. Personally I do enjoy the looks of WSC Schpeltor, A-Toll and Jagd Mirage over their Volks counterparts.

... and then there's that abomination in my eyes that is the WSC Empress.

But hey. ^_^

Vincent Valentine
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Post by Vincent Valentine » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:12 pm

j0 guys... 'sup!

Ha ha.

I'm starting to hate WSC, too. Hell, I've hated them for a long time.

My beef with them:

1) Very un-Nagano (and unimaginative) detailing style. Underskirt, underfoot etc.

2) Fatness. Really.... "How to ruin Engage SR-1, 101.. by Takehiko Ikushima"

3) Short legs. In many ways, it's the same deal as #2, but #2 applies more to the size of the waist and chest. The legs often add an uneeded level of stumpiness.

But again, there are some excellent WSC kits out there. Their rendition of older designs (stay away from the Bang Doll!) are superb. Bubirons LED, 2989 Junchoon (looove that sucker!), original LED, KOG are all grand. They have some good recent stuff, like the Prominence (but I still find that chunky and prefer Volks). A-Toll (WSC) seems excellent, and even though the WSC Vatshu is much chunkier than the more accurate SAV Volks version, I find myself preferring the WSC version because of its more down to earth look.

WSC isn't all bad - just generally bad (rule of thumb). Just ask us before you buy anything. Some Volks releases are quite terrible too, mind you.


Now, onto the meat. This isn't FSS, but it's an old resin tutorial from years past from yours truly. I hope you like it.


http://s89202096.onlinehome.us/resintut/assembly.htm

KOG
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Post by KOG » Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:18 pm

Personally, I think WSC has more good releases than bad ones.

GOOD:
KOG
Schpeltor
Junchoon
Auge
LED Mirage (including Sarion and Babiron's types)
Speed Mirage
Clouds Schatze
Terror Mirage
Ashura Temple
Vatshu
A Toll
V Siren Prominence
Gastness Temple
Jagd Mirage

POOR:
Bang Doll
Engage Sr1
Engage Sr3
V Siren Neptune
Empress

I can't talk about Flamberge Temple til I get my copy...

So as you can see, lots more good than bad. And Ikushima is definitely starting to do more with underfoot details these days.

And Ashura Temple has THE best shield backside I've seen, and I've seen a lot.

There's really no substitute for examining kits in person and forming your own opinion. But I DO want to make it clear that opinions on WSC kits vary. Don't assume it's some sort of universal 'fact' that WSC kits are bad. I own originals of every WSC kit except for Jagd (too pricy), Gastness (waiting for HLJ to stock it), and Flamberge (waiting for Celga to send my copy). And I don't regret the expenditures at all.

elemental

Post by elemental » Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:04 am

While we are throwing personal opinions on various FSS kits around, I would have to agree that there are many more good than bad WSC kits.

Actually, I think there are many more bad volks kits than bad WSC kits, but that isn't quite a fair comparison as volks has made many more kits overall, and covered a much wider range of MHs. The more recent volks kits are excellent, but from what I have seen the older Mechanical Moving kits from volks are... not so good.

I must be the only person in the english speaking world who actually LIKES the WSC Empress. I quite dislike the volks Empress... too many nasty sharp angles and just a bit too thin.

Most people seem to prefer Volks Bang Doll over WSC. I think both versions have their weaknesses, but I like them both for different reasons.

John F. Moscato
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Post by John F. Moscato » Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:30 am

elemental wrote:
I must be the only person in the english speaking world who actually LIKES the WSC Empress..
The second person. I think the WSC Empress rocks! :D

In fact, I'll go a step further and say that the only WSC kit I find to be genuinely sh*tty is the Neptune. The spirit of the design just wasn't preserved at ALL in that sculpt. As for the engages... Bulky but still curvilinear and attractive in their own ways. In reality, they aren't "better" than Volks' offerings, just different. I actually think neither company got the sculpts quite right.

As for the A-Toll, call me a heretic but I find the AF sculpt more elegant than the newer WSC (which I just find irksome to the eye, no matter how much I want to try to like it.) :D
John F. Moscato

elemental

Post by elemental » Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:47 am

OK so back to Norsehound's questions.

If you are looking at getting a Bang Doll, A-Toll or Berlin...

Volks Bang Doll:

Volks Bang is from their Mechanical Moving range, i.e. it's poseable. Avoid recasts as the polycaps in rcast kits are horrible to work with. Also, poseable kits (especially the older ones like Bang) have higher parts counts... i.e. lots of little parts. Not saying it is impossible, but for a first resin kit there are other easier models you could attempt. I have an original volks square shield Bang, but not the round sheild Bang. I'm not sure if the round shield Bang has decals or if all detail is sculpted.

WSC Bang:

You will either love or hate this kit. It is a heavier, chunkier Bang than the volks version, which is more "elegant". From a construction point of view the WSC Bang is "Free Pose" i.e. you have some limited freedom to pose the kit, but there are no moving joints. Once you pin or glue the parts in place the model is basically fixed pose. Free pose kits can be a bit tricky.

A-Toll:

The new WSC A-Toll is great. Very big model. Nice clean detailing. The only possible bad point is that it is another free pose kit. Being rather large, posing it so that it can balance is a little tricky. Alternatively you can pin it to a base to avoid balance problems. The original kit includes decals, whereas I think the recasts have the decal detals sculpted on. Special note: the original has some photo etched metal parts (for the "hair" sticking out from under the head/hat) and most recasts have produced this part in resin. I think this would be a major pain, considering how thin and delicate these parts are, and how they are supposed to be attached to the head.

Old Mechanical Moving Volks A-Toll: not a pleasant experience. Much smaller than the WSC version, lots and lots of parts, again a recast will not be fun for the same reasons as a recast Bang is best avoided (i.e. polycaps). In fact, this kit would be far worse to build than a recast volks Bang.

Old Volks fixed pose A-Toll (the one holding the spear thing): looks great but only available as recast. Quality of this kit as a recast is poor. I wish I could get a decent version of this kit, but I doubt it will ever happen. :(

Berlin:

Not sure if you mean the old style Berlin seen in the Colus/Hagooda war, or the new Berlin SR2. The older Berlin is only available as a recast, and again it is poor quality. Not especially difficult to build, but the badly reproduced details might be more than you are willing to experiment with as a first kit.

The new Berlin is an upcoming WSC release. More than anything else I would like to see a NEW WSC old Berlin, but I'm not holding my breath.

In all honesty, none of these kits are ideal first resin kits. Consider experimenting with resin by building a Volks SAV (Solid Art Version) kit. They are fixed pose, don't use decals (so there are no issues with recasts not having the decals), have excellent detail and are easy to build. SAV Neptune, SAV Prominence, SAV Phantom and SAV Luminous are all excellent kits.

Norsehound

Post by Norsehound » Fri Apr 14, 2006 5:30 am

I've only seen the green and white Berlins from the Colus/Hadooga war. They seem to be a rare find, I've only found recasts so far (That is to say, outside of HLJ.)

I've never heard of a MH "luminous" either.

One of the reasons why I think I'd want to go with a Bang Doll is because I've seen quite a few of them for cheap. Dunno if they're recasts or not, but in my current price range they're affordable, though I assume they aren't recommended as first kits.

Don't like the Phantom, don't like the Neptune... the Prominnence looks cool, and as I said I haven't seen the Luminous. Are Sirens (A and F) hard to build? They look solid enough as not not have a torrent of small parts, and aren't impossible-to-balance models like, say, the Jadt Mirage and it's tiny waistline...

John F. Moscato
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Post by John F. Moscato » Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:08 am

Hi Norsehound.

Siren A: Volks MM series. Personally, I find that this kit has tremendous potential, and while the sculpt is older, is still quite presentable. That having been said, it's also a MM kit, which, combined with its disproportionately-heavy upper body, makes for a balancing nightmare in all but the most skilled hands.

Siren F: Volks MM and SAV series. I'd recommend the SAV, simply because it would be easier to build, but I own the MM and both are excellent models. Details and proportions are nice, but I only own originals, so I can't comment on the state of recasts.

If you should happen to want to go the MM (Mechanical-Moving) route, do yourself an immense favor and take all the polycaps in the kit and throw them in the trash (you'll thank me later); these can be replaced with far superior ball-joints made by Yellow Submarine in clear acrylic. They go for roughly $4-5.00 plus shipping from HLJ.
John F. Moscato

KOG
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Post by KOG » Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:33 am

RE: what John said about WSC A Toll...

I do pretty much agree that the old Volks AF A Toll has a nicer overall shape/proportion... it's best viewed from some distance.

But the WSC A Toll is just so much nicer up close, lots more detail, especially around the 'hard to see' areas that were often ignored in AF kits... And of course the extra complexity means it should be more fun to work on/paint as well... I just LOVE the 'hairs' around the neck of the WSC kit.

Just my opinion of course. I hoped and hoped for years that WSC would do an A Toll, and I'm not disappointed.


RE: Elemental's uncertainty about Volks MM Bang w/ round shield...

This one does not use decals. Just like Square shield. Only the earliest MM kits used decals. In fact, pretty much just the MM LEDs I think?


To Norsehound:

I'd like to point out that originals of old kits (like the Berlins) ARE in fact available... they are just hard to get. But copies of these and other older kits show up fairly often on Yahoo!Japan auctions. Of course, it involves a bit of effort to get things this way, and prices can run pretty high... Recasts are better if you're on a budget.


And to follow up on what John said about replacing the polycaps in MM kits...

I'd go one step further and just build these kits as fixed pose right from the start. Forget about keeping them poseable. A lot of kits don't have great range of motion to begin with, and these kits are just too delicate to keep moving them around and fussing with them.

Again, just my opinion.

I've built 2 recast MM bang Dolls... the first one was kept poseable, and it ended up in disaster. The 2nd I built in fixed pose, and it's been great.

Nun Puncher

Post by Nun Puncher » Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:25 am

I'm using GW paints, should I be watering my paints down or applying them straight from the cup? Does anyone do their own paint jobs or does everyone follow the anime in terms of color scheme?

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