MH Horned Mirage

Discussion of FSS manga, movie and omake

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Redcomet0093

Post by Redcomet0093 » Fri Mar 03, 2006 11:44 pm

hitori wrote:
Redcomet0093 wrote:If the LED Mirages are so powerful how would the Mighty Alpha compare to them since it uses the LED's engines and armor plus it has Maximum as its pilot.
AFAIK the Mighty series are LED Mirages.
But they differ from the regular LEDs in design principle.

The regular LED Mirages are meant to fight in groups in RAID GIG mode.
Mighties are designed to be standalones.
Then if the LED Mirages are meant to work in groups would their performance be less then that of a Mighty Series machine or equal when fighting alone and one other thing how powerful is the Ezlazer engine of the Mighty Alpha since it was tuned?
Also if the LED Mirages are meant to work in groups and the Mighty series are ment to be standalone units does that mean the are commander units?

Edit:

If the Mighty Series are also LEDs of a different sort does that make them Mortar Messiahs like the LED Mirages?

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Post by hitori » Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:04 am

Falk wrote:What does RAID GIG mean BTW ?
Is it RAID, as a raid, a group attack ?
Or RAID as Redundant Array of Independent Disks ?
As the fatimas have access to all LED's datas available.
And GIG ? Except a music show, I have no idea.
Hasn't been explained yet.
It's kinda been alluded that it's somewhat like the RAID you wrote about.
Fatima Bucstual is said to be able to link with multiple MH's to simultaneously relay information between those units.
So people naturally assume that this is in fact the RAID GIG.
But to best of my knowledge, there is no specific mention of this function being the RAID GIG.
We only suspect that it is.
Redcomet0093 wrote:Then if the LED Mirages are meant to work in groups would their performance be less then that of a Mighty Series machine or equal when fighting alone and one other thing how powerful is the Ezlazer engine of the Mighty Alpha since it was tuned?
Also if the LED Mirages are meant to work in groups and the Mighty series are ment to be standalone units does that mean the are commander units?

Edit:

If the Mighty Series are also LEDs of a different sort does that make them Mortar Messiahs like the LED Mirages?
Hasn't been explained either.


If anyone has better information, I'd love to hear it because I am very interested in this subject as well.
But lets not have second hand accounts and "I've heard that so and so say" stuff...
How about citing some clear examples and original texts.

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Post by Rubel Colus » Sat Mar 04, 2006 2:19 pm

ok, i tried to translate (to the best of my crappy engrish) what i read from KF. these are only 2 paragraphs i extracted because i think it addresses what most people here want to know about, i.e. the "invincible" status of the LED Mirage, and the RAID GIG...

pardon my language skills :oops:

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LED Mirage

Mirage Knight's "robot", and also the most powerful most evil weapon in the cluster.

Its name "LED Mirage", means "the leading, most powerful Mirage", as in (lead, led, led).

The whole of the cluster is exclaimed over the beautiful white semi-transparent glowing armor and silver-chrome plated armor, as it was finally revealed in 3007, its power is unparalleled in human history, even historians in later generations do not categorized this "mecha" as a MH. Its purpose is to only to "massacre and destroy", LED Mirages' only "intellect" (program) is to receive commands from the headdliner and fatima, to battle, destroy, massacre, ravage, destroy, its beautiful eyes only to seek out targets to destroy. Even if it does not have a headdliner and fatima, this MH will still execute its "massacre and destroy" program as its basic instinct. This is why the MH is too dangerous to be used in normal MH combat, and so its sorties are very limited. In the combat zone, the only things that it will recognise as "friendlies", are the other LED Mirages in its RAID GIG formation, and all objects with the Blood Cross emblem. If a LED Mirage were to be activated in the Float Temple, it is said that only the Vermillion Tower which has the Blood Cross emblem will be left untouched, all others including the city will be turned to ashes. The only way to (barely) suppress the LED Mirage's "instinct" is its Fatima and headdliner.

"Merely 15 are used to suppress all planets in the whole of the cluster"

These words described all there is about the LED Mirage.

When this MH appears, opponents can only do one thing: "To escape with all of one's abilities", if there are any headdliners who wished to stand in the way of this MH, that will be enough to become a legend.

If the power of the LED Mirage is to be gauged in numbers, it will be like this: if the LED Mirage is at 100, then all other weapons are at 0. The thinking that "there is no absolute 0% in this world" only exists in our world. No matter what circumstances, what situation, or whatever reason -- yes, even if the white demon is damaged, chances to defeat the LED Mirage is totally non-existent, which means it is 0%. Bang Doll is 0, Schpeltor is 0, even Jagd Mirage or KOG is 0. If you think that by hardwork, resourcefulness or luck you may have a chance to win, then it is because you have read too many mangas from our world. In the view of this MH, it is absolutely impossible that there is "a chance of winning".

This fact remains true in the course of history, up till JC 7777, no MH, mecha, cyborg, devils, gods, weapons, living beings, alien beings, beings from alternate dimensions are able to defeat this MH.

"Without defeat", this is the reason why this MH is called "god of destruction".

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RAID GIG
If Amaterasu's ignition seal is inconsistent with the headdliner's and fatima's, LED Mirage will be completely immobile. Also, LED Mirage will recognise the fatima, so for example Alecto can only operate LED Mirage with the serial number 0015. However, because Amaterasu and Lachesis pilots the commanding MH KOG, they will not be restricted, and will be able to mobilise all LED Mirages. Similarly, Busctual is not restricted.

The most special part about its Fatima cockpit is something called "Silical Cone" which are cables connecting the cockpit and the fatima, and this is to allow for 6 - 15 LED Mirages to be able to use its special equipment - the RAID GIG. Each fatima's head crystal will simultaneously receive information from other fatimas in their LED Mirages. That is to say, all LED Mirages in the RAID GIG is controlled by multiple fatimas.

The LED Mirages' headdliners are therefore receiving supplementary assistance from multiple other fatimas in addition to his own fatima. Its controls and mobility is said to be extremely close to what the headdliners are looking for - "to completely act out his own actions".

However, even if the RAID GIG is switched off, the performance of a lone LED Mirage is not much different. RAID GIG combat is for maintaining control during group battles where it is chaotic and disorderly, and also to allow for the headdliners to be more efficient, thus the special calculation program is created.

All these systems for the LED Mirage is for the purpose of tackling battles beyond MH combats, therefore it is unnecessary for MH from other nations or other Mirage MHs.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

P.S > if u've seen Alecto's Plastic Style suit, you'll realise there are many cables on her suit, which are used for the RAID GIG.
Last edited by Rubel Colus on Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by John F. Moscato » Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:29 pm

Wow Rubel. I knew the LEDs were supposed to be quite formidable, but your translations sent chills going up my spine :?

Something just occured to me though: in the Atork war of 2989, the LED Mirages are deployed on the battlefield and seem quite controllable. Heck, NONE of the LEDs in the final battle were wearing any blood crosses amongst themselves (all Colus collors/insignias.) How did they manage not to tear each other apart?
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Post by Falk » Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:35 pm

Wow, so the LED is so powerful ?

Well it sounds a bit cheesy to me :P

Despite it being official, I still don't really get why it's so powerful. Both Jagds were still WIP when Sopp shew them to Lachesis, and LEDs were already deployed on Juno. (oh well I'm not sure, I have to check the manga and I'm lazy doing it^^)

Also it doesn't really fit well with what we've seen in the manga so far. Despite 3 LEDs being involved on Juno, the Boowrays/Siren were not that much afraid. Ok they attacked before the LED could do anything and got crushed quite easily, but in that scene the LEDs don't look THAT evil.

Same for the prologue. According to this text, the LED should have crushed the Black Knight in just a few seconds (ok, there's always the possibility of MH+headdliner+fatima being pretty good together, particularly in the case of the Black Knight).

Well, we'll see the LED's effectiveness when the manga eventually resumes.

But even if Nagano says FSS is not SF (in a rigorous way), I think he should avoid such drastic statement. I wouldn't want the first half of the story to be really unconcistent just for the 2nd half to be "bigger".

Thanks for the translation^^
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Post by Rubel Colus » Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:26 pm

I must've skipped a part of the paragraph describing the 100% and 0%... juz added it in, and i think it gives a very clear picture on the LED Mirage now.

I have to agree that it sounds *VERY* cheesy the first time i read that, and i couldn't really accept it for some period of time thinking that there are simply too many inconsistencies.

1. The prologue - it seems to me Karrer almost lost and it was only becoz of the surprise attack that nailed Sydmian. That's 65hrs of combat...

2. Colus Hagoda war, like what John said, there was no insignia, and what about friendly Colus allies?

3. Past settings listed several LED Mirages as being damaged during the Grand Invasion. How to explain that if nothing can defeat LED? They couldn't have damaged each other since they have the FEMC insignia...

In Designs 1, there was a description of Karrer saying that (from memory :p) he is very inexperienced and he's fighting the very strong and very very experienced EST and Black Knight. Also the LED Mirage is very difficult to control if it is alone and not using RAID GIG (exception is Rogner and Max). so that kinda answers number 1.

For 2, it is said that during that war, the 3 LED Mirages were preliminary models, and their armors were painted over with opaque white. The main objective was just to test out the toughness of its armor.

For 3.... well, we'll just have to wait till 3159 (its been forever...). Probably no longer true.

-------------------------------------------------
Referring back to earlier posts in this thread

- I don't know if this is good for Horned Mirage profile.

Bucstual has a combat mode codenamed "The Bride". Before Aisha acquired Alecto as her fatima, she and Bride took the Horned Mirage into actual combat and scored 12 kills. Rogner, Spaccorn and Daigerain also took The Bride and the Horned Mirage to bring Bucstual's total kill score to 38.


***** Spoiler *****
(i wished for a spoiler tag function :P, Tach any chance to make it using CSS or js? )

Anyway, NSG mentioned that he thought Amaterasu conquered Joker Cluster in order for them to combine their forces to fight the SATAN. Although it does make sense, but the defeated are not willing to bow down to AKD. Also, the Stant expedition in 3225 is right in the middle of the Grand Invasion, so the SATAN problem should be solved by then - maybe temporarily? but still not the reason Amat would continue his Invasion plan...?
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Post by Tachyon » Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:45 pm

Thanks for everyone's contributions to this thread. It has been real interesting for me to read.

Rubel has requested a "spoiler code" for the message board. I haven't written many modifications for this message board but I know how to do it. Once I finish reading through the FSS manga in English I will sit down and develop that feature. It will help me to get a clear description of what the spoiler code will do. Does it make the text the same color as the background, thus making it invisible? If that's the case I'll need to make a special box for it as some people browse the message board with a different template.

As long as we're laying out requests, does anyone know of where to find an English translation of Lachesis' speech to Morard in book 3?
If you don't like the news then go make some of your own.

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Post by Rubel Colus » Sat Mar 04, 2006 7:01 pm

Tach, it was juz a suggestion, no worries if its gonna take too much time. :p some boards come with this feature. i'm not sure if the visibility option of the CSS or JS can be used here? (not familiar wif web programming)
Falk wrote:What does RAID GIG mean BTW ?

Is it RAID, as a raid, a group attack ?
Or RAID as Redundant Array of Independent Disks ?
As the fatimas have access to all LED's datas available.

And GIG ? Except a music show, I have no idea.
I *think*.... the 6-15 LED Mirages in the RAID GIG formation has got to be a reference to the RAID storage technology that we have... :D the ideas are just too similar... of coz that's juz IMO...

Redcomet0093 wrote:If the LED Mirages are so powerful how would the Mighty Alpha compare to them since it uses the LED's engines and armor plus it has Maximum as its pilot.
Part of the description of LED Mirage B4 in KF:
"Amaterasu gave the Akatsukihime his most thorough tuning so much so that it has even higher power output and performance than the LED Mirage."

As for the other 2 Mighty series, there is no mention that Amat was even involved in the tuning at all. All Amat did was to provide the engines and semi-transparent armor for the 3 Mightys to Dr Diamond. I would *assume* that the other 2 Mightys are simply super-high performance MHs but still nothing compared to the LED Mirage...; except for Alpha, which Amat did the very precise fine tuning himself.

--------------------------------------------
And regarding Falk's idea that LED Mirage couldn't be more powerful than the Jagd just becoz it is built BEFORE the latter -- IMO its not necessarily true. The main roles for these machines are totally different. Jagd is used for wide-area bombardment, LEDs are for group battle. Perhaps becoz the LED is too dangerous to be used and so Amat tries to minimize its usage, he had to develop other Mirages for "normal" use, i.e. imo "less powerful" so that it is controllable, such as the Terror and Cross. Of coz the Terror and Cross are probably also superior in espionage missions, etc.. rather than group battles.

Also the desciption that the opponents juz had to escape at the sight of it probably is more for the scene during Grand Invasion, when the LED Mirage is armed with the Inferno Napalm, and in RAID GIG... That's total hell on earth!~ 8)
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Post by hitori » Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:48 pm

Ack...I'd totally forgotten about that. :shock:
Thanks Rubel ^^

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Post by Ladycus sopp » Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:09 am

très interressant tout ça.

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Post by Nu Soard Graphite » Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:02 am

Thanks for the info Rubel. That should come in handy for the FSS section.
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Post by Falk » Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:12 pm

Rubel Colus wrote:And regarding Falk's idea that LED Mirage couldn't be more powerful than the Jagd just becoz it is built BEFORE the latter -- IMO its not necessarily true. The main roles for these machines are totally different. Jagd is used for wide-area bombardment, LEDs are for group battle. Perhaps becoz the LED is too dangerous to be used and so Amat tries to minimize its usage, he had to develop other Mirages for "normal" use, i.e. imo "less powerful" so that it is controllable, such as the Terror and Cross. Of coz the Terror and Cross are probably also superior in espionage missions, etc.. rather than group battles.
Mmh yep', why not, your explanation make sens.
But I still don't like this whole "god of destruction" thing :twisted: . I don't know, maybe it's cuz' the LED has been there since the beginning, that there are dozens of LED kits, and that despite we haven't seen it that much in the story (except prologue and Colus Vs Haguda), it's the "basic" MH for the FEMC, and then, all of a suden, it surpasses everything else seen so far in the story.

The Super Empire is great cuz' it was ultra-powerfull but we don't know much about it. Anything from the SE results in something powerfull and charismatic in Joker era (Kaien & family, Swans & his descendants, Empress, MM Auge...)...
Other powerfull things in Joker are mythological creatures (Dragons), not entirely human guys (Ama', Rogner), then, almost out of nowhere comes the LED who beats them all flat out.

This one is the most cheesy :
This fact remains true in the course of history, up till JC 7777, no MH, mecha, cyborg, devils, gods, weapons, living beings, alien beings, beings from alternate dimensions are able to defeat this MH.
This would mean the previous chart is now totally wrong, and that LED is on top ? (at least until 7777)
This would mean that (in order of power), Rogner & Satans boss (I don't even mention the satans soldiers, they're now so low compared to the LED, that this war will last 10 minutes), Dragons, Spector, Ama, are all PWNED! by the LED until 7777.
Right now it kinda breaks the charm of FSS for me. :?

But I'll stop ranting about that until we see how the story unfolds... :wink:
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Engage

Post by Engage » Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:36 pm

On the topic of the Horned Mirage, isn't the picture on page 60 (top right of the page) in the english volume 1 a Horned Mirage? If so, it looks very different than the Horned Mirages pictured in later issues.

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Post by KOG » Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:53 am

Falk wrote:Mmh yep', why not, your explanation make sens.
But I still don't like this whole "god of destruction" thing :twisted: . I don't know, maybe it's cuz' the LED has been there since the beginning, that there are dozens of LED kits, and that despite we haven't seen it that much in the story (except prologue and Colus Vs Haguda), it's the "basic" MH for the FEMC, and then, all of a suden, it surpasses everything else seen so far in the story.
mmmm.... The whole LED Mirage = Lead/Best Mirage thing was explained pretty much from the beginning, so this is hardly a surprise. It was always meant to be the best Mirage. Since the LED Mirage has hardly seen any action at all yet, it can't really be considered a 'basic MH'. In fact, there's not much basic about Mirage MH or Mirage Knights in general...

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Post by John F. Moscato » Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:22 am

Indeed. The LED's battle prowess has been known from the very beginning; what we're only beginning to understand now is just HOW formidable it is, and why it has this aura of invincibility about it.
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