ZZ Gundam head ?

Mobile Suit Gundam and all its spinoffs

Moderator: kosh

Post Reply
Temjin
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 7:06 pm
Contact:

ZZ Gundam head ?

Post by Temjin » Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:23 am

In the mecha designers section mentioned Akitaka Mika didn't design the ZZ Gundam head. I wonder if there's a story behind it?, and who did the head ? ??... and what happend to the original head....

Anyway, just wondering about that. XD

"MSZ-010 ZZ Gundam (although he didn't design the head) "

User avatar
Tachyon
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 2815
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 2:14 am
Location: Austin, TX
Contact:

Post by Tachyon » Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:16 pm

According to one report,
Makoto Kobayashi, who designed the Marasai & The O, among other things, did the original design. I think that Mika Akitaka simply cleaned it up for animation purposes.
If you don't like the news then go make some of your own.

Xavadis

Post by Xavadis » Fri Jul 02, 2004 1:59 am

Ahh, good thread. Being the Makoto Kobayashi fan I am, here is some material I have found that I think covers the development of the ZZ.

Here are pics of Kobayashi's original sketches for the proposed ZZ Gundam, from a B-club magazine I have:
http://img31.photobucket.com/albums/v94 ... 000390.jpg
http://img31.photobucket.com/albums/v94 ... 000391.jpg
Here is a painting he did of the head specifically:
http://img31.photobucket.com/albums/v94 ... 000397.jpg

I don't know if he did this painting, but here is a nice airbrush painting of his head design on the cover:
.http://img31.photobucket.com/albums/v94 ... 000393.jpg

There were some other ideas what the ZZ should look like. Here is Mamoru Naganos proposed ZZ, designer or L-Gaim and Five Star Stories mecha:
http://img31.photobucket.com/albums/v94 ... 000392.jpg

But Kobayashi's was the one picked. His original designed stayed for a long time, so long that Bandai actually put his scratchbuilt model in hobbyshows, showing the line of 1/144 ZZ Gundam models Bandai would be coming out with. Here's the model(the guy in the upper left corner on the first page is Kobayashi):
http://img31.photobucket.com/albums/v94 ... 000394.jpg
http://img31.photobucket.com/albums/v94 ... 000395.jpg

This page is interesting because if you look at the bottom of the page you will see a HCM toy of Kobayashi's design! HCM toys were High Complete Models, sort of the Gundam Fix toys of the 80's. They had the detail of a 1/144 model but were pre-assembled :
http://img31.photobucket.com/albums/v94 ... 000396.jpg

Ultimately, Mike Akitaka refined the Kobayashi ZZ, which was not uncommon. For Z Gundam, Kazumi Fujita had designed the original Zeta Gundam, which later came out in garage kits as the "Hyper Zeta", but Kunio Okawara refined his version to the image of the Zeta that showed up in the anime. Akitaka did that with Kobayashi's ZZ and changed it to this version:
http://img31.photobucket.com/albums/v94 ... 000398.jpg

I think since he kept Kobayashi's concept of the Hyper Mega Cannon in ZZ's forehead Kobayashi is still credited with the head. Then Kobayashi went crazy with the ZZ head; if you have the book "Gundam Wars II: Mission ZZ" then you are familiar with the crazy ZZ Zwei head on the cover, which is a Kobayashi variant of his ZZ design. He also went on to design a Super ZZ which showed up in his AsWars series in HJ and other variations that showed up in drawings and scratchbuilds.

In the end, I am glad Akitaka changed the design. Kobayashi's ZZ design wasn't strong, in my opinion, and really doesn't look good. Kobayashi's strength is designing more organic looking mecha or more radical looking mecha like his The-O or Baund Doc designs. Hajime Katoki is a good example of someone whos style is better suited for designing Gundams; sharper edges, precise corners and edges. Not that Kobayashi couldn't still design a really cool Gundam. He has proven that with his variants. It would be great to see him design a Gundam for a future UC story.

User avatar
Tachyon
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 2815
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 2:14 am
Location: Austin, TX
Contact:

Post by Tachyon » Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:58 am

Thanks for sharing the images and the great information. It's so interesting to see how designs develop over time.
If you don't like the news then go make some of your own.

kosh
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 329
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 3:29 am
Location: Ohio
Contact:

Post by kosh » Fri Jul 02, 2004 3:08 am

That's some great stuff Xavadis,ZZ is often looked down upon for its' less than serious story,but the mechanical designs are great...my favorite is the ZZ gundam.
Do you understand?

Temjin
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 7:06 pm
Contact:

Post by Temjin » Sat Jul 17, 2004 10:14 am

Tachyon- Sorry for posting in the wrong section. Ah I see, that also answer another question that bothers me for a long time. What is "cleaned up" mean. From mahq they wrote the designer for Gundam F91 like: "Original mechanical designer(s): Yoshikazu Yasuhiko (principal design), Kunio Okawara (cleanup)" That might be another story. XD

Xavadis- Thanks, those are great images and information you posted. I would never thought of ZZ Gundam had such history. So Kobayashi is like the Kunio Okawara that started the original Gundam RX-78. He is the one who did the hard stuff, but I agree with you about Akitaka's version of ZZ, I used to be a fan of that mecha back when I was a kid. It's my first time to heard about Kobayashi, I will look more into his works and see what he did in the past. Thanks a lot for all those images and background stories. :)

User avatar
Tachyon
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 2815
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 2:14 am
Location: Austin, TX
Contact:

Post by Tachyon » Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:40 pm

I would say someone who does clean up is a designer who takes a mecha design and alters it to make it easier for cell animators to work with and plastic model designers to convert to a model. This usually involves simplifying the design.

It's interesting to see how Katoki Hajime has cleaned up his own Gundam Sentinel designs.
If you don't like the news then go make some of your own.

Xavadis

Post by Xavadis » Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:12 pm

Temjin-
Glad you like the pics. Like Tachyon said, clean up is making the design ready for cell animation most of the time. You can say it is kind of like what a inker does to a penciler's drawings when making comic books, sort of, but not inking over the original sketch. Just making a cleaner, streamlined version based on the original design.

I found a good example of clean up. Yutaka Izubuchi did most of the Neo-Zion MS designs for ZZ Gundam, and Mike Akitaka did the "clean up" making them into the designs you see in the anime and the models. Here are some of Izubuchi's concept drawings before they got cleaned up:

http://img31.photobucket.com/albums/v94 ... 000460.jpg

Pretty close to what Akitaka turned them into, but there was some clean up to make them cell ready. Izubuchi was THE gundam designer back then; after this he went on to design all the major mecha in the Char's Counterattack movie, and even though mahq.net doesn't list him under the designs of the Nightingale and Hi-Nu from the CCA novel, he designed those too.

Post Reply