Imagine...

Mobile Suit Gundam and all its spinoffs

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ShinDVDz

Imagine...

Post by ShinDVDz » Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:45 am

Alright, I'm sorta lost here cause I've not seen Zeta before. But I hear the Bio sensor enhances the suit's strength when they're pissed off and crap like that. If so, it sounds pretty good. So, how come they never used it again?

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Post by Tachyon » Fri Jun 04, 2004 3:02 am

The Gundam universe if full of inconsistencies but I think I know why we didn't hear much more about the bio-sensor. It was an experimental technology during Z Gundam to help newtypes better control their mobile suits. As Mark Simmons, Gundam expert, has often said, there were never many newtypes around.

After the time of Z Gundam there probably weren't many people interested in refining the technology as there weren't many newtypes to test it with or to use it after it's perfected.

This leads me to a pet peev of mine: Why wasn't the incom system used much after Gundam Sentinel? It's a non-newtype weapon and it's plenty powerful. How come we don't see it much after the S Gundam and Gundam Mk. V?
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Post by kosh » Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:39 am

The BioSensor probably didn't make a reappearance after Zeta because newer,more efficient newtype control systems were developed.Also,the zeta was designed by Kamile(sp.)Bidan,so perhaps it was tuned just for him and no one else could use it,just as Amuro was shown tuning the RX-93s' psychoframe,in CCA,to his brainwave pattern.As for the Incom system,I don't even have a guess on that one,perhaps production costs were to high to continue its' development.
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Post by Tachyon » Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:37 am

gundamofficial.com said that Paptimus Scirocco also installed the biosensor in The O.

The F91 movie had a newer control system so I guess you're right; the bio sensor was replaced by better technologies.
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Post by Grebo Guru » Wed Sep 08, 2004 12:31 am

Tachyon wrote:This leads me to a pet peev of mine: Why wasn't the incom system used much after Gundam Sentinel? It's a non-newtype weapon and it's plenty powerful. How come we don't see it much after the S Gundam and Gundam Mk. V?
More to the point, why wasn't the Quasi-Pyschommu system used at all after Sentinel and ZZ? The Quasi-Psychommu system originated in, I believe, the Gundam Mark-V, and therefore went on to be used in the Neo-Zeon version of that MS, the Doven Wolf. The thing about the Quasi-Psychommu is that it functions exactly like a regular Psychommu system, except that the pilot doesn't have to be a Newtype! By actively scanning the pilots brainwaves zillions of times per second, the Quasi-Psychommu allows MSs to be operated by thought (like the Qubeley, etc).

The reason the Doven Wolf & Gundam Mk-V used Incoms was that even though Quasi-Psychommu MSs are thought-controlled, they can't pull off the "all-range attack" gimmick because there's no Newtype brainwaves to guide Bits/Funnels. (Any other type of communication is, of course, confounded by Minivsky Particle interference.) So, wire-guided Incoms are used instead. They're the next best thing.

Why didnt we ever see more of the Quasi-Psychommu? Why didnt we see a greater proliferation of Kyoka Nigen (Artificially-Strengthened Humans, aka Artificial Newtypes) or clones (like Four and the Purus)? All this super-cool, next-level technology seems to have been forgotten.

Some stories did come up with great new applications of said technologies, particularly Hathaway's Flash (the Penelope and Xi Gundam were both equipped with Newtype-Guided Missiles) and Gaia Gear (in which many MSs were equipped with I-Field Generators and other such neat stuff, and a "Memory Clone" of Char was made). Back in the day, Mark Simmons himself ran his own "Gundam ZZZ" roleplaying game which also followed the logical extension of Zeta's & Sentinel's Newtype technologies -- among other things, the characters found themselves facing an army of 300 Char clones!!! (He did great original MS designs for it too.)

Newtype gimmickry reached its peak, it seems, in Gundam ZZ. It got crazy there, with Judo and Hamaan creating newtype forcefields that can block Hi-Mega Cannon blasts, powering Mobile Suits purely through Newtype power, manifesting powers like X-Ray vision, etc... it was nuts. I think the "bubble burst" on Newtypes after that. F-91 represented the first "scaling back" or "return to basics" in the Gundam world, with F-91 following suit. Both were fairly modest on the Newtype front. V-Gundam did some pretty crazy things (a Newtype baby, a Newtype dolphin, the differentiation between "Newtypes" and "Psychickers" and of course the Angel Halo), but it seems that Newtypes are a thematic Gundam story element whose time has passed. Even Tomino himself has said as much...

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Incom

Post by Kuruni » Wed Sep 08, 2004 7:06 am

Little correction. INCOM is first used by ORX-012/MSF-008 Gundam Mark IV But it seem to be just an experiment model.
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Post by Grebo Guru » Wed Sep 08, 2004 5:27 pm

I may be wrong, but as far as I know, an INCOM System and a Quasi-Psychommu system are not the same thing... I mean, technically the MAN-03 Braw Bro had "Incoms" (though they were then called simply "wired mega particle cannon") and it was a full-on Psychommu Mobile Armor. Naturally, since the Quasi-Psychommu hadn't been invented yet.[/url]

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Post by AslanCross » Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:29 pm

The INCOM is basically a weapon, a small, compact version of the wire-guided mega particle gun. It needs a Quasi-Psycommu system to function, at least from what I know.

IMO, the NT supertechnology ended with Char's Counterattack--it seems that Funnels went out of use after that. Then there's the Psycoframe, which is basically millions of microscopic biosensors that are embedded into the cockpit frame. (At least that's how it was described to me). The Psycoframe ended up producing a really strange and widespread phenomenon (see the ending of the movie) that basically saved the earth. Also, if you read the novel, there's even more strange NT stuff that happens there.

Anyway, there are a couple of reasons I think NT technology went out of use:
-Wartime conventions after Char's Counterattack banned them. The same thing happened between Gundam SEED and SEED:Destiny--N-Jammer Cancellers and Mirage Colloid were banned. Wartime conventions are opportunities for governments to enact their paranoia of each other. They see how dangerous N-Jammer Cancellers can get (because they can make nukes work), so they ban them to level the playing field. The same may be true for NT technology.

-Budget cuts. Anaheim Electronics can't afford to produce them anymore, so they go back to basics. Notice that after Hathaway's Flash, Gundams become small again. (Gundams like ZZ, Nu and Xi were all above 20 meters, while from F90 to Victory they were all only around 15 meters.)

From a writer's point of view, I guess they just got tired of the whole NT thing and decided to let it play second fiddle. There's still some NT-related technology in F91 (such as the Biocomputer) but it isn't as played up as during the Z-CCA era.

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Little note...

Post by Kuruni » Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:13 am

While EF seem to stop using NT weapon. Few MS/MA still use them...All of them are either used by Jupitorian or Zanscare.
EMA-04 Elefante, EMA-10 Divinidad, ZMT-S28S Gengaozo, ZMT-S35S Rig Ring and ZMT-S37S Zanspine. (And I also suspect about ZMT-S34S Rig Contio's wireless shot claw.)
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Post by Waterslayer » Sat Sep 11, 2004 9:09 pm

AslanCross wrote:-Budget cuts. Anaheim Electronics can't afford to produce them anymore, so they go back to basics. Notice that after Hathaway's Flash, Gundams become small again. (Gundams like ZZ, Nu and Xi were all above 20 meters, while from F90 to Victory they were all only around 15 meters.)
IIRC, you've got your timeline wrong. Hathaway's flash occurs after V Gundam. If I'm wrong, that's still no good of an explanation. Budget Cuts? I don't think so. It's a matter of technology.
IMO, the NT supertechnology ended with Char's Counterattack--it seems that Funnels went out of use after that.
Again, shot down by Hathaway's flash. XI had 10 funnels, I believe, Penelope had 20.

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Post by kosh » Sun Sep 12, 2004 3:38 am

Waterslayer,Hathaways Flash took place in UC105.Hathaway is none other than Bright Noas' son Hathaway from CCA.V gundam,IIRC,took place in the mid UC150s',I think.
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Post by AslanCross » Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:14 am

I did forget to mention Hathaway's Flash, but didn't happen long after CCA. Thanks for the clarification, Kosh. V Gundam happened in UC 153, to be exact.

As for the budget cut theory, well, it is just a theory after all. Maybe the writers just got tired of using NTs as a story device.

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Post by Waterslayer » Sun Sep 12, 2004 4:53 pm

I haven't read up much on gundam history in a while. My last decent resource was the GP... Either way, V Gundam did see the return of quite a few "old-school technologies" as well as more practical designs.

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Post by Grebo Guru » Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:41 pm

Waterslayer wrote:IIRC, you've got your timeline wrong. Hathaway's flash occurs after V Gundam. If I'm wrong, that's still no good of an explanation. Budget Cuts? I don't think so. It's a matter of technology.
Incorrect. Hathaway's Flash happens long before V Gundam -- around UC 0105 (V Gundam being 0153).
Waterslayer wrote:Again, shot down by Hathaway's flash. XI had 10 funnels, I believe, Penelope had 20.
But note these weapons were "Funnel MISSILES" -- explode-on-impact, Newtype-guided projectiles. Not classic "flying gun" Funnels.

Waterslayer

Post by Waterslayer » Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:53 am

Grebo Guru wrote:
Waterslayer wrote:Again, shot down by Hathaway's flash. XI had 10 funnels, I believe, Penelope had 20.
But note these weapons were "Funnel MISSILES" -- explode-on-impact, Newtype-guided projectiles. Not classic "flying gun" Funnels.
Gundam Project listed Fin Funnels and Funnel missiles. I remember this distinctly because it was what drew me to the design, as it fit such an arsenal in such a frame.

*edit* I just checked MAHQ and they list a general "Funnels". Sadly, MAHQ is the last remaining resource for Gundam information, as badkarma.net has now also gone down...

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